Lionel Messi - v7

[Birdy]

It's official :serghei is an incel. Full-time.

You guys act like a bunch of morons, bullying Serghei just because you are more in number, without really answering his points...

Now, to the point of contention:
1) Bartomeou's fault VS Messi's fault is simply the WRONG dilemma. Seeing things in this way means you want binary oppositions.
First of all, I don't think anyone here has defended Bartomeu. Why are we even discussing if Bartomeu is responsible?
Of course he is, he is has the primary responsibility for the mess the club has become.

Does that mean MEssi is not responsible? I am sorry to break this to you, but it does not. Messi might also be responsible in different ways.

2) Regarding the part about Messi's responsiblity, it's clear that he has become a burden for the team at least in some ways.
Even in his best ever CL campaign 18/19, what Serghei says that the period he was injured the team looked better and more cohesive, is true. Coutinho looked better without him, Dembele looked better, and the buildup looked light years ahead without Messi moving wherever he wants to request a pass.

Now, there is some misunderstanding about assigning responsibility. Situations arise without always someone actively pursuing that state of affairs, but rather by accepting presuppositions that are not true.

That might be the case about the sickening 'obligation' to pass the ball to Messi whenever he wanders all over the pitch wanting to get involved.
It's not that Messi demanded from every teammate in the locker room to pass the ball to him or else he would do sth about it.
It's rather that everyone else 'respects' Messi too much, and feels compelled whenever he sees Messi close by wanting the ball to pass it.
And that psychological imperative extends not only to players but to coaches as well. Coaches see Messi wandering all over the place, and understand full well that this movement is detrimental to any plan and to the effectiveness of the team. However, they feel unable to act on it. They don't want to push Messi too much, either by insisting in instructing him or eventually by removing him from the pitch when he fails to follow the plan.
It is this last step that unfortunately no coach seems able to take (even Koeman who seems to be having the most balls since Lucho), but it's precisely this step that is the necessary starting point of the process of curing the problem.
So, they feel they their position (teammates and coaches) is below Messi's, and maybe that's their fault as well that they don't do anything to break the vicious circle.

And now someone would say Messi is not responsible for that. Of course he is. Because he is perpetuating the above situation without realising that he is doing. Because he thinks he is still the best in the world and he can move however he wants on the pitch and have no position, no obligations, and follow no instructions, just enjoy jogo bonito when the ball arrives on his feet

 

[Jadentheman]

except Brazil won the last Copa?

Brazil without Neymar. Now Neymar is back which means Brazil won't be as fluid

 

[Rory]

You guys act like a bunch of morons, bullying Serghei just because you are more in number, without really answering his points...

Now, to the point of contention:
1) Bartomeou's fault VS Messi's fault is simply the WRONG dilemma. Seeing things in this way means you want binary oppositions.
First of all, I don't think anyone here has defended Bartomeu. Why are we even discussing if Bartomeu is responsible?
Of course he is, he is has the primary responsibility for the mess the club has become.

Ridiculous to say people are bullying serghei. He has absolutely no regard for anyone who?s opinions aren?t in line with his, comes across rude, dismissive, big headed with an air of superiority but the people offering opposing opinions are suddenly bullies?

The point of contention wasn?t bartomeus fault vs Messi?s fault, that was one small fragment of what is being discussed. The way he wrote about Bartomeu potentially leaving sounded like he was saying it was a bad thing and that bad thing was only happening because of Messi. Which is ridiculous.

 

[JohnN]

Push it.. push that agenda more. The hate is amazing. You have been more silent until his form dropped significantly so you can have followers on your hateful journey towards diminishing leo's achievements, personality, career, impact. You name it. Everything that everyone else sees is wrong.

 

[serghei]

The point of contention wasn?t bartomeus fault vs Messi?s fault, that was one small fragment of what is being discussed. The way he wrote about Bartomeu potentially leaving sounded like he was saying it was a bad thing and that bad thing was only happening because of Messi. Which is ridiculous.

Yes, a player having the power to force the removal of a president is a bad thing in any sane club, and totally unhealthy for the club going forward. Step aside from your ultra-Messi bias and participate in the conversation, or continue to attack me. Either way, I don't give a flying fuck to be honest. That part you got right.

Push it.. push that agenda more. The hate is amazing. You have been more silent until his form dropped significantly so you can have followers on your hateful journey towards diminishing leo's achievements, personality, career, impact. You name it. Everything that everyone else sees is wrong.

Yes I will. Funny thing is, I don't hate Messi. True, I don't like his personality and how he treats the club, his teammates, his managers. Which is perceived as hate by fans with poor logic.

Talking serious football related subjects with blinded and fanatic Messi fans is like talking about rock music with 14 year old girls who are fans of One Direction. You guys are as worse as the CR7 fans you despise so much .

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

It's official :serghei is an incel. Full-time.

He always justify his opinions so I dont understand why you are insult a quality-poster.

 

[JohnN]

A fanatic fan would be someone who says Messi is still the best around, has no criticism about his game or something along those lines.

You just take every single piece of bad rumor about him as an unquestionable fact, because it supports a narrative. No critical thinking about the sources, the probability of even 10% of those things being true. Even if some rumors contradict others, no problem. Even if reality shows different things, no problem. That is fanatism.
You have convinced people in here to think he is a bad guy because he didn't give a penalty to Fati.
Another point made was that the team played nice and fast and good football without leo. Which is totally true for 1 game, where Suarez turned beast mode, and totally untrue for all the other games, where we were crap as always.
I can't think of any other arguments that have a point in this conversation but I can say, you don't have the right to call people fanatic when you can't identify the fanatism in your own words.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

The first time of the 14-15 season we saw the GOAT-Messi back.

This was the ultimate recovering. Since then we saw prime Messi again.

I miss this Messi, you couldnt take the ball from his feet, he was unplayable.

 

[Messigician]

He always justify his opinions so I dont understand why you are insult a quality-poster.

Next joke

 

[Rory]

Yes, a player having the power to force the removal of a president is a bad thing in any sane club, and totally unhealthy for the club going forward. Step aside from your ultra-Messi bias and participate in the conversation, or continue to attack me. Either way, I don't give a flying fuck to be honest. That part you got right.

Haha ultra-Messi bias. Things I?ve said:

- I wanted Messi to leave this summer
- He wouldn?t make my world xi
- He needs to be rested and allow the rest of the team to play
- He?s declined significantly
- He doesn?t help press

Super ultra Messi bias that is. See John?s point about how you represent your arguments and misrepresent other people?s.

Of course one player causing a president to resign is a bad thing. I know that, everyone knows that. When that president is arguably our worst ever it?s a necessary evil and I don?t really care who it is doing it.Especially when that player will at most be here for 1/2 more years. See how there was a grey area there, a bit of critical thinking?

Messi at the moment is neither a positive thing on the pitch nor a negative one. We?ve all agreed this season he?s been good, meh and bad. For me that?s ok, hopefully the manager can learn to rest him and he accepts it. If Koeman doesn?t do that or Messi doesn?t accept that role then I want Messi gone.

Also don?t play the victim that?s proper cringe and not at all what?s happening. We?re disagreeing on a Barca forum ffs.

 

[serghei]

Of course one player causing a president to resign is a bad thing. I know that, everyone knows that. When that president is arguably our worst ever it?s a necessary evil and I don?t really care who it is doing it.Especially when that player will at most be here for 1/2 more years. See how there was a grey area there, a bit of critical thinking?

That's a laughable thing to say. Basically it's bad for a player to get a president fired. But if that president is not good, then that makes it ok. There's no gray area here, it's a black and white thing. No player should ever use his status in the club to cause presidents fired. That's not what he is there for, and he should not be using his power in this way.

Because Messi's fans think it's ok is one of the reasons why this club is in such a mess.

 

[serghei]

A fanatic fan would be someone who says Messi is still the best around, has no criticism about his game or something along those lines.

You just take every single piece of bad rumor about him as an unquestionable fact, because it supports a narrative. No critical thinking about the sources, the probability of even 10% of those things being true. Even if some rumors contradict others, no problem. Even if reality shows different things, no problem. That is fanatism.
You have convinced people in here to think he is a bad guy because he didn't give a penalty to Fati.
Another point made was that the team played nice and fast and good football without leo. Which is totally true for 1 game, where Suarez turned beast mode, and totally untrue for all the other games, where we were crap as always.
I can't think of any other arguments that have a point in this conversation but I can say, you don't have the right to call people fanatic when you can't identify the fanatism in your own words.

Bad rumors? There's live video of him blatantly disrespecting managers mate. There's him going against the club this summer, obviously (he even apologized for it to save face). There's Zubi saying even since 2014 he was threatening Martino with the sack, which is unacceptable. Zubi has no reason to lie. Same rumors in Argentina, that he decides things at this national team as well. There are articles from reputable sources saying his power in the club is way above that of a player. I've posted them numerous times. You want me to believe everyone is lying? No, thank you.

How am I fanatic? I hold Messi to certain standards (football-wise, as well as moral-wise, regarding his position in the club).

I am neutral. I don't even follow his life one bit, never commented on his private life, because I don't care. I only care about what he does at Barca. If I liked the things Messi does on the pitch and in the club, I'd be his no1 fan. But I don't. Imo, he's not a very likable person. The only thing I like about him these days is his natural talent.

If anyone has a problem with that, I can only consider him fanatic. Because there's nothing wrong with not liking someone because of clear and objective reasons.

 

[Rory]

That's a laughable thing to say. Basically it's bad for a player to get a president fired. But if that president is not good, then that makes it ok. There's no gray area here, it's a black and white thing. No player should ever use his status in the club to cause presidents fired. That's not what he is there for, and he should not be using his power in this way.

Because Messi's fans think it's ok is one of the reasons why this club is in such a mess.

If you say so. You obviously can?t view things on a deeper level than what?s on the surface.

 

[serghei]

If you say so. You obviously can?t view things on a deeper level than what?s on the surface.

Some things are meant to be flexible, and grey as you say, and some things need to remain clear because it is dangerous to allow players to dictate club policy. If you see that as not viewing things at a deeper level, ok then.

 

[Marie-Antoinette]

Bad rumors? There's live video of him blatantly disrespecting managers mate. There's him going against the club this summer, obviously (he even apologized for it to save face). There's Zubi saying even since 2014 he was threatening Martino with the sack, which is unacceptable. Zubi has no reason to lie. Same rumors in Argentina, that he decides things at this national team as well. There are articles from reputable sources saying his power in the club is way above that of a player. I've posted them numerous times. You want me to believe everyone is lying? No, thank you.

How am I fanatic? I hold Messi to certain standards (football-wise, as well as moral-wise, regarding his position in the club).

I am neutral. I don't even follow his life one bit, never commented on his private life, because I don't care. I only care about what he does at Barca. If I liked the things Messi does on the pitch and in the club, I'd be his no1 fan. But I don't. Imo, he's not a very likable person. The only thing I like about him these days is his natural talent.

If anyone has a problem with that, I can only consider him fanatic. Because there's nothing wrong with not liking someone because of clear and objective reasons.

Post the video. I can find you tons of videos of Messi celebrating with his coaches.

He didn't go against the club, he wanted to be happy in another club where he could also be respect. Club could have won lots of cash and move forward but no, kept him prisoner and let him leave for free next year. Good job. Whatever he does now, is bonus.

Old fart Zubi wanted media attention that no one would be surprised.
Everyone know it's Jorge Messi who choose Martino as Barca 's coach. Right? Hey, all rumors are true!👀
If Leo fired Martino as Barca's coach at the end of 13-14 ugly season as you says, why did he choose him as Argentina' s new coach 2 months later if you say he decide everything at the National team?! 🤔🤭
You're lost in your rumors mill. Pathetic.

You're a hater. Judgmental. So everything but neutral. If you don't know anything about his life outside of Barca, don't come judge him as a person. His life doesn't revolve around football. You'd be very surprise. He's very likeable actually.

You're not very likeable.

So if anyone has a problem with you he's a 'fanatic' and a '14 year old girl loving One direction'?
😂 What a pompous arrogant boy you are.

Guess what, it's normal and sane to find fans and admirers of Messi here.
Your presence here is OK but unhealthy, alas, for you first. In many years, when you'll look back at those thousands posts you devoted to this devilish Messi, you will regret all this wasted time.

I'm so sorry if you think I 'bully' you 😞