Lionel Messi - v7

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
sQK8aRW.jpg

miQ9Q6o.jpg

But this guy is all talk, lazy walking overrated that only wants a paycheck and his friends. Plsss Barca sell him and let the physically fit Countinho and the most promising hype Fati carry Barca. Messi is the cancer of the team why they can't win

9/11 from 2008-09 to 2018-19, more then a decade of dominance
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
Messi's peak is definitely the best ever in football. There's no question about that.

2008-2015, 5 Ballon D'Or, 3 CL, 5 LL in 7 years; seasons of 53, 73, 60, 58 goals and the rest 40+.

It's a shame we (the board) didn't build right post 2015 and he, IMO, didn't do his best (resting more, evolving tactically) to maximize both our and his chances of success on the CL level. If we'd won a CL or 2 from 2015-2020, he would have had a very, very strong case for undisputed GOAT.
 

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
sQK8aRW.jpg

miQ9Q6o.jpg

But this guy is all talk, lazy walking overrated that only wants a paycheck and his friends. Plsss Barca sell him and let the physically fit Countinho and the most promising hype Fati carry Barca. Messi is the cancer of the team why they can't win


First I didn't notice Suarez but 2015-16. Damn. He used to kill it.

Messi is/was insane player.
 

Birdy

Senior Member
So Messi was all set with trophies and drained after Tito? And the only motive is for him to play with his friends and train al little as possible? Is this what you are saying? Because dude, that is insane.
How the f. do you know what coaches are telling him? The coaches he had produced Messidependencia, because this is the only way they knew how to win. Instead of using him as the icing on the cake, they used him as the motor, and the spear.
But yeah, right...he choose those nobodies right?


You said things in life are grey(true), not black or white, but you usually choose the purple. The path of speculation and gossip, not plain facts. And also, you never go on the line with suggestions, you just comment on the past.



I agree and i'm saying politicians on the board are the cause of all the bs in the past 10 years. But somehow Messi is the decider and the coach maker who wants to play with his friends and enjoy life.

Here is the thing:
There is a crucial difference between just wanting X objective and acting towards it, and following a method or path of getting X which is flawed.

Messi surely wants to win. It's evident from his statement and from the plain fact that he wanted to leave when he realizes that the team cannot compete for the highest trophies.
He is also a professional, he trains and fulfills his formal requirements.
The problem with Messi starts when you realize he has AN OPINION on how to win. He has an opinion on where he wants, feel comfortable playing, on how he moves on the pitc. And then he has also an opinion on what coach might help the club (Tata Martino, Valverde to stay), what player should the club buy or NOT buy in order to improve (Neymar to come back, NO griezman, etc)
Of course Messi does not know shit about football tactics, and cannot decide correctly both on his role on the pitch and on the personnel and the tactical setup of the rest of the team.

So, the problem starts when Messi oversteps his position as a player and has opinions on matters that should normally be the job of the director of football, the recruitment team, and the board.
Now, as I said a few pages back, responsibility lies with Messi for that, but also lies with all the people in the chain (coach, directors, board members, president) that let him do that and assume that position.

There is nothing black and white in the above. He is not a malevolent, assertive little dictator who just takes pleasure in using power, but he is certainly assuming authority he should not assume and guess what: he is not suited to judge and take decisions on these situations.
 

Fati_Future_BallonDor

Well-known member
sQK8aRW.jpg

miQ9Q6o.jpg

But this guy is all talk, lazy walking overrated that only wants a paycheck and his friends. Plsss Barca sell him and let the physically fit Countinho and the most promising hype Fati carry Barca. Messi is the cancer of the team why they can't win

11/12 was just unbelievable, I dont think there will be player in the next 100 years who will break it.
 

Fati_Future_BallonDor

Well-known member
Messi's peak is definitely the best ever in football. There's no question about that.

2008-2015, 5 Ballon D'Or, 3 CL, 5 LL in 7 years; seasons of 53, 73, 60, 58 goals and the rest 40+.

It's a shame we (the board) didn't build right post 2015 and he, IMO, didn't do his best (resting more, evolving
tactically) to maximize both our and his chances of success on the CL level. If we'd won a CL or 2 from 2015-2020, he would have had a very, very strong case for undisputed GOAT.

+1
2011 and especially 2015 were level beyond human. The best ever football was played by him. I would never though that I would see a player who is better than R9 prime.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Messi's peak is definitely the best ever in football. There's no question about that.

2008-2015, 5 Ballon D'Or, 3 CL, 5 LL in 7 years; seasons of 53, 73, 60, 58 goals and the rest 40+.

It's a shame we (the board) didn't build right post 2015 and he, IMO, didn't do his best (resting more, evolving tactically) to maximize both our and his chances of success on the CL level. If we'd won a CL or 2 from 2015-2020, he would have had a very, very strong case for undisputed GOAT.

Well said. The fault lies both with the club and with Messi himself. In 2015 he was a level above Ronaldo, and only comparable with Pele and Maradona. Fast forward 5 years and there's not much between them anymore.
 

Judoman

Senior Member
Here is the thing:
There is a crucial difference between just wanting X objective and acting towards it, and following a method or path of getting X which is flawed.

Messi surely wants to win. It's evident from his statement and from the plain fact that he wanted to leave when he realizes that the team cannot compete for the highest trophies.
He is also a professional, he trains and fulfills his formal requirements.
The problem with Messi starts when you realize he has AN OPINION on how to win. He has an opinion on where he wants, feel comfortable playing, on how he moves on the pitc. And then he has also an opinion on what coach might help the club (Tata Martino, Valverde to stay), what player should the club buy or NOT buy in order to improve (Neymar to come back, NO griezman, etc)
Of course Messi does not know shit about football tactics, and cannot decide correctly both on his role on the pitch and on the personnel and the tactical setup of the rest of the team.

So, the problem starts when Messi oversteps his position as a player and has opinions on matters that should normally be the job of the director of football, the recruitment team, and the board.
Now, as I said a few pages back, responsibility lies with Messi for that, but also lies with all the people in the chain (coach, directors, board members, president) that let him do that and assume that position.

There is nothing black and white in the above. He is not a malevolent, assertive little dictator who just takes pleasure in using power, but he is certainly assuming authority he should not assume and guess what: he is not suited to judge and take decisions on these situations.

First of all, everyone has got an opinion, not a problem.
Let me ask you this, if he had an actual WC coach in all these years, don't you think it would solve most if not all supposed issues?

Why the fuck is a problem if a guy has an opinion and how the fuck do you ppl know if he oversteps? I'm not talking about "sources" i'm talking about facts. Was he responsible for Arda/Gomez/.. by any chance?

If by any chance he really does have some sort of decision making power he sucks at it big, big time.

I will repeat once again, the cause of all problem in the past years lies with the politicians on the board. Everything else is just a consequence.
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
Well said. The fault lies both with the club and with Messi himself. In 2015 he was a level above Ronaldo, and only comparable with Pele and Maradona. Fast forward 5 years and there's not much between them anymore.

He's going to look back in maybe 10-20 years and definitely rue how he approached the game post 2015 (his own level of commitment in some seasons, which teammates he trusted in, which managers he backed etc).

We're seeing so many elite athletes extending their run into the mid-late 30s these days (just look at the 2 champions from yesterday) that I have to be honest, I've lost a bit of respect for Messi and his essentially calling it a day in the latter stages of CL outside of 2018-2019. That doesn't mean he's lazy or that he didn't have an unbelievable work ethic compared to other professional football players or even the very good ones. But at the top of the mountain, the margins are very thin and he has put nowhere the same effort (physically or tactically) as a Lebron, CR7, or tennis big 3.
 

serghei

Senior Member
He's going to look back in maybe 10-20 years and definitely rue how he approached the game post 2015 (his own level of commitment in some seasons, which teammates he trusted in, which managers he backed etc).

We're seeing so many elite athletes extending their run into the mid-late 30s these days (just look at the 2 champions from yesterday) that I have to be honest, I've lost a bit of respect for Messi and his essentially calling it a day in the latter stages of CL outside of 2018-2019. That doesn't mean he's lazy or that he didn't have an unbelievable work ethic compared to other professional football players or even the very good ones. But at the top of the mountain, the margins are very thin and he has put nowhere the same effort (physically or tactically) as a Lebron, CR7, or tennis big 3.

Well, there's a lot to be discussed about what is the root cause of his lack of effort and his submissiveness when under pressure. That's an interesting discussion, because it is, undoubtedly, there. That defeated attitude before the game is over, I've seen it time and time again, vs Atletico two times, when ran a bit more than Pinto, vs Roma, even vs Liverpool (even though technically he played decently on Anfield), vs Bayern, vs PSG. What is it in Messi that makes him back way from the fight when the going gets tough?
 
"his submissiveness when under pressure".

Yes, go say that to the Argentina selection. They begged him to come back because they couldn't qualify themselves for the world cup 18. He came back in the cleaver match score a hat trick and qualify his country by himself.
Submissiveness under pression. Of course...
Like in Copa final 2015 when he was the first and only one to score at the penalties?
Or in CL finals or semi finals when he scored wonder goals?
Or against Liverpool? Bayern? ManU? Real? when he destroyed every teams?
Submissive. Of course Einstein. Explain to us. What is it? 🤨
 
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MagIX

Senior Member
Messi's peak is definitely the best ever in football. There's no question about that.

2008-2015, 5 Ballon D'Or, 3 CL, 5 LL in 7 years; seasons of 53, 73, 60, 58 goals and the rest 40+.

It's a shame we (the board) didn't build right post 2015 and he, IMO, didn't do his best (resting more, evolving tactically) to maximize both our and his chances of success on the CL level. If we'd won a CL or 2 from 2015-2020, he would have had a very, very strong case for undisputed GOAT.

No discussion about the peak of Messi, no one come closed, i totally agree.

The seasons after 2015, for HIS standard (because with such number of goals/assists for any other player means having an outstanding mind-blowing season)
were not the best but definitely not that bad. For me the board is the MAIN responsible, no doubt about that, of the failure to build a competitive team: waste of money, no long term vision, no ideas, stuck in the past trying to rebuild the pep team without realising that soccer changes and evolves (like everything else in life),....this has impacted the team performances and players perfomances.
Said that, that doesen't mean that Messi can not be blamed, buy seeing him as the main responsible of our failures goes beyond the ridiculous.
For me Messi is not a capitain, he's not a leader, i do not pretend that he runs 15km every single match, but in big matches YES, I hate this attitude, it gets on my nerves, he has to rest more and so on.
I do not want to say that in some areas he is lazy, but..... for example: his right foot, shooting with his right foot. I'm sure 100% that CR in his situation, he would train maniacally for 2 hours every day to improve the ability of his less strong foot.
 

serghei

Senior Member
"his submissiveness when under pressure".

Yes, go say that to the Argentina selection. They begged him to come back because they couldn't qualify themselves for the world cup 18. He came back in the cleaver match score a hat trick and qualify his country by himself.
Submissiveness under pression. Of course...
Like in Copa final 2015 when he http://www.barcaforum.com/editpost.php?p=2225651&do=editpostwas the first and only one to score at the penalties?
Or in CL finals or semi finals when he scored wonder goals?
Or against Liverpool? Bayern? ManU? Real? when he destroyed every teams?
Submissive. Of course Einstein. Explain to us. What is it? ��

I said that would be an "interesting discussion". That means you can't be part of it, because that would make it non-interesting by default.
 

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
I said that would be an "interesting discussion". That means you can't be part of it, because that would make it non-interesting by default.

lol, childish

As expected when someone posted that picture showing Messi's statistical dominance over more then a decade and forum de amigos are here trying to diminish him.
 

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