Lionel Messi - v7

[Daniele]

He's getting many chances because of his free role, which allows him to be around the ball constantly no matter where the ball is. Even if it's on the left, he can just abandon his spot and join the attack on the left, which is a luxury no other player in the world gets a sniff at. I don't have a problem with that if Messi is still effective. But in this year, he was far from what I'd call effective, considering his role in the team.

I really think you and 4 others in this forum are the only ones in the world to think that Messi has a free role, and to build a whole narrative on it to criticize the player

 

[JamDav1982]

incredible, in this forum every time you say something positive about Messi will always come out a user who will have something to say against.
Yet we are (we should) be among the fans of barcelona..

I think the Guardian journalists are competent and that Ronaldo has not been better than Messi the last 4 out of 5 years (I watch Juve every single day of the league)

It has nothing to do with 'being poistive about Messi' it is picking and choosing other opinions to suit and then having hard neck to write off others as 'nerds'

Textbook example.... for you the general opinion of coaches, players and journalists dont count but Guardian journalists opinions alone do as long as fits with narrative.

 

[eaman]

incredible, in this forum every time you say something positive about Messi will always come out a user who will have something to say against.
Yet we are (we should) be among the fans of barcelona..

I think the Guardian journalists are competent and that Ronaldo has not been better than Messi the last 4 out of 5 years (I watch Juve every single day of the league)

Ronaldo might have slightly better stats and had a team that helped him win a few champions leagues a little luckily at times but he was never and will never be a better player than messi. The most recent champions league game between the two showed exactly why messi is the best and why some think for some reason ronaldo is

 

[Daniele]

It has nothing to do with 'being poistive about Messi' it is picking and choosing other opinions to suit and then having hard neck to write off others as 'nerds'

Textbook example.... for you the general opinion of coaches, players and journalists dont count but Guardian journalists opinions alone do as long as fits with narrative.

for me the FIFA award is the least credible. Even less than the Ballon d'Or.
And yes ... the opinion of players (and sometimes even coaches) usually counts less than that of those who criticize and assign prizes for their profession,
it is simply logic.

 

[eaman]

It has nothing to do with 'being poistive about Messi' it is picking and choosing other opinions to suit and then having hard neck to write off others as 'nerds'

Textbook example.... for you the general opinion of coaches, players and journalists dont count but Guardian journalists opinions alone do as long as fits with narrative.

Every award should be picked by journalists or non biased people if that's possible. Players and to a lesser extent coaches dont vote sensibly

 

[te amo barca]

I really think you and 4 others in this forum are the only ones in the world to think that Messi has a free role, and to build a whole narrative on it to criticize the player

Arguing against the fact that Messi has a free role at Barca is as dumb as it gets. I advise you to visit an ophthalmologist.

 

[JamDav1982]

Every award should be picked by journalists or non biased people if that's possible. Players and to a lesser extent coaches dont vote sensibly

Journalists are less biased? Not sure what that is based on

The players and coaches across the board get it right and not as agenda driven as an entirety as is made out and Messi and Ronaldo would both benefit from that anyway.

If you want to take journalists only from the awards Ronaldo finishes ahead of Messi four of those five times regardless.

I prefer Messi but cant start picking and choosing the opinions of others when it fits.

 

[JamDav1982]

for me the FIFA award is the least credible. Even less than the Ballon d'Or.
And yes ... the opinion of players (and sometimes even coaches) usually counts less than that of those who criticize and assign prizes for their profession,
it is simply logic.

Of course it is 'least credible' as just more evidence of picking opinions that fit.

Take the journalist only vote in balondor, FIFA award and Ronaldo still comes out on top on those years.

It is not logic to assume that journalists that give opinions hold more weight than players and coaches involved in game. There is zero logic in that.

For you there is nothing credible but your own opinion and those that agree with it.

 

[eaman]

Journalists are less biased? Not sure what that is based on

The players and coaches across the board get it right and not as agenda driven as an entirety as is made out and Messi and Ronaldo would both benefit from that anyway.

If you want to take journalists only from the awards Ronaldo finishes ahead of Messi four of those five times regardless.

I prefer Messi but cant start picking and choosing the opinions of others when it fits.

Well I'm basing that on some of the ridiculous votes players give to their teammates or friends. Are you sure about that stat of more journalists voting for ronaldo over messi in the ballon bor? Anyway I did also mention that non biased people should vote along with journalists but how would you know who is non biased really

 

[JamDav1982]

Well I'm basing that on some of the ridiculous votes players give to their teammates or friends. Are you sure about that stat of more journalists voting for ronaldo over messi in the ballon bor? Anyway I did also mention that non biased people should vote along with journalists but how would you know who is non biased really

There is an element of that but the number of votes filters it out and vast, vast majority dont have those connections and there will be element of it in media votes as well anyway just less obvious when connecting dots.

The Balondor is journalists only and Ronaldo been voted ahead of Messi three of last four prior to 2020 when no vote. On this years FIFA award journalist votes only he was ahead again.

It gets worse for Messi if take coaches/players out that vote.

 

[eaman]

There is an element of that but the number of votes filters it out and vast, vast majority dont have those connections and there will be element of it in media votes as well anyway just less obvious when connecting dots.

The Balondor is journalists only and Ronaldo been voted ahead of Messi three of last four prior to 2020 when no vote. On this years FIFA award journalist votes only he was ahead again.

It gets worse for Messi if take coaches/players out that vote.

Ya I get that but maybe some of the sensible coaches and players voted for messi. Obviously they did

 

[Daniele]

Arguing against the fact that Messi has a free role at Barca is as dumb as it gets. I advise you to visit an ophthalmologist.

ok.
give me some authoritative links that support this theory.
In my opinion you say this only because you are influenced by those two or three alleged experts who repeat the same things on this forum 24 hours a day.

If you look at the history of my messages I have provided various links in which Messi's role is very well analyzed over the years:
not a free role at all, outside the flat land where this forum resides

 

[JamDav1982]

Ya I get that but maybe some of the sensible coaches and players voted for messi. Obviously they did

That just shows you are looking at it with bias and think that anyone who does not think same way is not sensible.

 

[Daniele]

Of course it is 'least credible' as just more evidence of picking opinions that fit.

Take the journalist only vote in balondor, FIFA award and Ronaldo still comes out on top on those years.

It is not logic to assume that journalists that give opinions hold more weight than players and coaches involved in game. There is zero logic in that.

For you there is nothing credible but your own opinion and those that agree with it.

Let's leave aside the dispute Messi-Ronaldo (for me, those who understand football know that the first is better than the second beyond the statics and the trophies won).

Follow my reasoning:
a footballer can be a footballer without necessarily knowing the history of football, right?

A coach can be a coach but he will hardly be able to watch all the football matches in the world because he has to focus on his team and his opponents right?

A football critic is only a football critic if he knows the history of football and watches as many games as possible, knowing as many players as possible.

Maybe (just maybe) that's why this last category awards prizes. Because it is the essence of their profession.

So which judgment is LOGICALLY more reliable?

 

[JamDav1982]

Let's leave aside the dispute Messi-Ronaldo (for me, those who understand football know that the first is better than the second beyond the statics and the trophies won).

Follow my reasoning:
a footballer can be a footballer without necessarily knowing the history of football, right?

A coach can be a coach but he will hardly be able to watch all the football matches in the world because he has to focus on his team and his opponents right?

A football critic is only a football critic if he knows the history of football and watches as many games as possible, knowing as many players as possible.

Maybe (just maybe) that's why this last category awards prizes. Because it is the essence of their profession.

So which judgment is LOGICALLY more reliable?

No journalists would be the third to rate on opinion rather than players or coaches.

It is why it is the awards which incorporate those in football that mean the most to them as voted by fellow professionals.

Regardless either way the media have also voted Ronaldo better in four of last five years so original point stands.

Logically those that are involved in football and have the better understanding is the view that is held in higher esteem. There is zero doubt that being voted by fellow pros means more than a journalists award.