Lionel Messi - v7
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malvolio
Senior Member
Weak or not good enough leader - yes. Weak mentality - hell no.
You just can't win and stay at the top for as long as he has by being mentally weak. Even in training he destroyed his teammates.
Messigician
Senior Member
Messi is the goat and beats Ronaldo in all categories except one. Mental.
You will never see Ronaldo do this after scoring a goal
https://twitter.com/MediaBarcaTimes/status/1284046822730678274?s=19
You will never see Ronaldo do this after scoring a goal
https://twitter.com/MediaBarcaTimes/status/1284046822730678274?s=19
Mitchell1978
Senior Member
Like that makes you better then me or anyone else... piece of shit
fergus90
Senior Member
I've got to be honest, I'm glad he said what he did. It needed to be said and I'm struggling to disagree with any of it. The team has had zero desire or fight for a long time, the last time I saw any emotion was from Iniesta when we were losing 3-0 to Roma. The squad are too passive, they've won too many things and are riding on the coattails of former glories. It shows in the sterile, one-dimensional and slow football we play.
Messi for all his greatness, is a leader with his ability but he shouldn't be THE captain, the problem is though there is really no candidate for it, the team is desperately missing players who will defend Barca with everything on the field and it shows. All I see are passive players, Alba says the fans should be grateful, Suarez shouts at his team mates, Busquets spews the same narrative after every big defeat, Rakitic looks emotionless all the time and Pique does his talking on twitter or to the ref (however to me his performances are still always very good on the pitch). These senior players are in no way leaders, excellent players in their day but do not set the example of what it means to defend the badge of Barcelona.
Messi for all his greatness, is a leader with his ability but he shouldn't be THE captain, the problem is though there is really no candidate for it, the team is desperately missing players who will defend Barca with everything on the field and it shows. All I see are passive players, Alba says the fans should be grateful, Suarez shouts at his team mates, Busquets spews the same narrative after every big defeat, Rakitic looks emotionless all the time and Pique does his talking on twitter or to the ref (however to me his performances are still always very good on the pitch). These senior players are in no way leaders, excellent players in their day but do not set the example of what it means to defend the badge of Barcelona.
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malvolio
Senior Member
He would thrive at Madrid with a leader like Ramos in the team. Board fucked up big time after Mascherano left. They took the easy route and placed the responsibility on Messi. Players kind of followed him but only through the fact he intimidated them with his football talent. Messi should not have to be vocal or a leader as that is simply not his thing. Let the dirty work for others and let the GOAT play football.
Also, for the people that compare Messi with Ronaldo in the mentality department. How many times have we seen Ronaldo whine and sulk when things aren't going his way? I would say as many times we seen Messi, at least. Both of them are lacking in leadership. It's just that Ronaldo has more drive and is more selfish. Messi is just more relaxed and introvert. He didn't need to work as much as Ronaldo as he had imense talent to rely on.
Also, for the people that compare Messi with Ronaldo in the mentality department. How many times have we seen Ronaldo whine and sulk when things aren't going his way? I would say as many times we seen Messi, at least. Both of them are lacking in leadership. It's just that Ronaldo has more drive and is more selfish. Messi is just more relaxed and introvert. He didn't need to work as much as Ronaldo as he had imense talent to rely on.
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Messi's legacy has been destroyed the last few years playing in this awful team who have flopped hard in Europe since 2015 (and one CL in 10 years for Messi and Barca by next summer).
Added to his tragic Argentina career, meanwhile Ronaldo has overtook him for CL wins and won with Portugal.
A lot of neutrals giving him shit now either for his sulkiness, dictator demands or for staying in his comfort zone all his career 'while Ronaldo has done it in all the top leagues and won more European and international trophies'.
Added to his tragic Argentina career, meanwhile Ronaldo has overtook him for CL wins and won with Portugal.
A lot of neutrals giving him shit now either for his sulkiness, dictator demands or for staying in his comfort zone all his career 'while Ronaldo has done it in all the top leagues and won more European and international trophies'.
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Ronaldo's had better luck. He's had plenty of bad games in big finals and matches but team mates have stepped up (Ramos, Bale, Eder). Messi has had the likes of Higuain and Suarez fluffing chance after chance.
It will never not be weird to see that name thrown into the mix.
Lord Eder, the saviour of Portugal, not even a joke
Its the equivalent of, say, Lucas Vazquez scoring the winner in WC/EL final for Spain.
An absurd statement.
Who will you look to for creating chances if Messi isnt there?
Suarez will grant you the odd goal, but who else?
Griezmann as the "main man" is a net negative, despite all of his work rate off the ball, which Messi doesnt have(which is a negative, but not enough to offset the positives).
There are obviously many different aspects of the mental side of football. Another poster mentioned how he moved here from Argentina when he was 13 and you bring up his longevity. His work ethic and determination to develop and maintain his level has obviously been excellent.
I should have been more precise. When I refer to his "mentality" I am specifically talking about his "fighting spirit" or "persistence" in big matches when he is not in the mood and/or things are not going his way.
Leo has had more great performances in big matches than virtually every other player, but in my opinion no other historical giant has the tendency to completely switch off and collapse into his shell like Messi does with increasing frequency these days.
Plenty of legends have played play poorly in many big matches, show their displeasure and frustration in various different ways, but this tendency to completely disconnect and zone out from the match entirely is not something I have seen very often from big players.
Neymar on a bad night will lose 100 balls, but still go for dribble 101 with the same passion he went for his first. Ronaldo will miss ten sitters, but his hunger for a goal still remains through the 90 minutes. Messi on one of his rare terrible nights can walk the entire match playing mostly 5 foot short passes from minute 1 to 90 with no urgency or realization of the importance of the situation at all.
[youtube]NdBvDetQDJU[/youtube]
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KingLeo10
Senior Member
We would have buried Real if we did that back to back treble.
Biggest missed opportunity.
If we are to boil it down to one single game for RM as well, as you did with the Atletico game, i cant help but to think what would have happened if Ronaldo didnt pull a hat rick out of his ass against Wolfsburg.
Would Zidane have been allowed to stay after the end of that season? Who knows.
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