Lionel Messi - v7

[KingLeo10]

I want to know something from users here. I know for casual football fans if argentina won that final against Germany, Messi would probably be universally regarded as the undisputed GOAT.

But for fans that have been watching him year in year out and the level he has played for such a long time. Would you rate him higher if he had a world cup to his name?

I've always rated players by how good they were on the pitch, with Messi as number 1 followed by R9.

With all due respect, just the eye test doesn't determine greatness. If so, Bergkamp would be top 10 all time.

Winning isn't the sole criteria but winning while being at the peak of your powers matters, especially if you were in a position to do so.

No one cares about Maradona without the 86 WC and his performances there.

No one cares about R9 without the 2002 WC and his performances there. He was a non factor in CL for the most part.

No one cares about Messi without the CL performances like v Madrid, Bayern, United etc. and the 3-4 CLs.

Argentina in 2014 was among the top 4 teams in the world. Yes, they weren't the strongest but if Messi had squeezed out 110% of what he was capable of for that one game, Argentina likely would have squeaked past a dominant Germany. And that would have ended the debate because he would have been the first great to dominate a WC and multiple CLs.

For me, he's in the mix right now with Maradona and Pele. CR7, DiStefano, Cruyff are probably the next 3 in the mix.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

I want to know something from users here. I know for casual football fans if argentina won that final against Germany, Messi would probably be universally regarded as the undisputed GOAT.

But for fans that have been watching him year in year out and the level he has played for such a long time. Would you rate him higher if he had a world cup to his name?

I've always rated players by how good they were on the pitch, with Messi as number 1 followed by R9.

If he had any National Team trophy I would rate him higher. Although I still think he is the GOAT of all time, so he would be just clearly the best player in the history.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

With all due respect, just the eye test doesn't determine greatness. If so, Bergkamp would be top 10 all time.

Winning isn't the sole criteria but winning while being at the peak of your powers matters, especially if you were in a position to do so.

No one cares about Maradona without the 86 WC and his performances there.

No one cares about R9 without the 2002 WC and his performances there. He was a non factor in CL for the most part.

No one cares about Messi without the CL performances like v Madrid, Bayern, United etc. and the 3-4 CLs.

Argentina in 2014 was among the top 4 teams in the world. Yes, they weren't the strongest but if Messi had squeezed out 110% of what he was capable of for that one game, Argentina likely would have squeaked past a dominant Germany. And that would have ended the debate because he would have been the first great to dominate a WC and multiple CLs.

For me, he's in the mix right now with Maradona and Pele. CR7, DiStefano, Cruyff are probably the next 3 in the mix.

Ronaldo also had WC 1998. Insane performance too.

 

[Tackle]

If he had any National Team trophy I would rate him higher. Although I still think he is the GOAT of all time, so he would be just clearly the best player in the history.

Don't rate the Copa America that much anymore. The competition has been turned into a farce with how frequently it is held these days. Not that most fans regarded it on the same level as the Euros anyways.

The prestige factor isn't that great anymore. It would be nice to see Leo lift it next year so he can finally celebrate something with his country, but nobody is going to be moving him up any rankings because of it.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Don't rate the Copa America that much anymore. The competition has been turned into a farce with how frequently it is held these days. Not that most fans regarded it on the same level as the Euros anyways.

The prestige factor isn't that great anymore. It would be nice to see Leo lift it next year so he can finally celebrate something with his country, but nobody is going to be moving him up any rankings because of it.

That's true, but at least then his whole national team career wasn't just defeats(In finals), other than Olympic gold obv.

 

[Batistuta9]

With all due respect, just the eye test doesn't determine greatness. If so, Bergkamp would be top 10 all time.

Winning isn't the sole criteria but winning while being at the peak of your powers matters, especially if you were in a position to do so.

No one cares about Maradona without the 86 WC and his performances there.

No one cares about R9 without the 2002 WC and his performances there. He was a non factor in CL for the most part.

No one cares about Messi without the CL performances like v Madrid, Bayern, United etc. and the 3-4 CLs.

Argentina in 2014 was among the top 4 teams in the world. Yes, they weren't the strongest but if Messi had squeezed out 110% of what he was capable of for that one game, Argentina likely would have squeaked past a dominant Germany. And that would have ended the debate because he would have been the first great to dominate a WC and multiple CLs.

For me, he's in the mix right now with Maradona and Pele. CR7, DiStefano, Cruyff are probably the next 3 in the mix.

Yeah, thats a fair point. I'd understand if he never won anything major. The reason why I asked is because he's been amazing at club level for 10+ years and won everything you can win. The world cup is played every 4 years, and a month's worth of football. If a player is lucky they will get 3/4 world cup appearances. Just seems a bit weird judging a career on 3/4 months worth of international football in a 15 year career especially now that CL is higher level to me these days. It's the same for everyone I guess

 

[malvolio]

I want to know something from users here. I know for casual football fans if argentina won that final against Germany, Messi would probably be universally regarded as the undisputed GOAT.

But for fans that have been watching him year in year out and the level he has played for such a long time. Would you rate him higher if he had a world cup to his name?

I've always rated players by how good they were on the pitch, with Messi as number 1 followed by R9.

Nah they just wait for things to go bad so that they can shit on him for not being the best or even better then CR.

Don't know why people even compare Maradona, R9 or other greats to Messi. While most of them were immensely talented they didn't produce week in week out for such a long time as Messi did.
They turned up for a tournament or two and voila you have this great aura of being in contention for the GOAT. Standards set by Messi and CR are unreal. And you have to go with Messi over CR.

 

[Hardy]

Don't rate the Copa America that much anymore. The competition has been turned into a farce with how frequently it is held these days. Not that most fans regarded it on the same level as the Euros anyways.

The prestige factor isn't that great anymore. It would be nice to see Leo lift it next year so he can finally celebrate something with his country, but nobody is going to be moving him up any rankings because of it.

copa america would have been crucial at least to burn the narrative "he only won with Barca".

 

[Givenchy]

I want to know something from users here. I know for casual football fans if argentina won that final against Germany, Messi would probably be universally regarded as the undisputed GOAT.

But for fans that have been watching him year in year out and the level he has played for such a long time. Would you rate him higher if he had a world cup to his name?

I've always rated players by how good they were on the pitch, with Messi as number 1 followed by R9.

if I'm rating a player for how good they were on the pitch then Ronaldinho is #1

as for the world cup argument, its gonna leave dent in his legacy theres no doubt about it. if he had a world cup to his name I think that would of been case closed for neutrals also in terms of Ronaldo vs Messi. I was so pissed watching that final vs Germany.. it was his one chance. just one moment of magic.. I can remember sitting on the edge of my seat as if it was England in that final

in the social media age where we have the chance to analyse each player and rewatch every second of their careers; Messi will be #1 of this generation for sure as we can look in depth at the stats.

records show Ronaldo scoring in those CL finals but if you rewatch the matches he was utter dogshit. records also show his goal scoring numbers this season but we can easily see they are totally inflated by dodgy penalties

 

[Katarina1]

If he's gone , it's either to City , Psg ....or Bayern

For the first time this summer, I genuinely hope he does leave. As a Barca fan, I'd rather start rebuilding now and then hope to be back near the top in a few years rather than hang onto this declining senior core for a few years and then spend the several years after that rebuilding. As a Messi fan, I'd also enjoy watching him more in a team like City where he can challenge for UCL and not be feeding off scraps even against the worst teams at home.

 

[Katarina1]

If Messi were to leave for City, EPL and UCL would be the only relevant club competitions for the next few years. La Liga would lose so much of its appeal in the short term.

 

[khaled_a_d]

If Messi were to leave for City, EPL and UCL would be the only relevant club competitions for the next few years. La Liga would lose so much of its appeal in the short term.

Liga has built a big brand over the years, it will survive and will probably do it quickly.

 

[Marie-Antoinette]

If Messi were to leave for City, EPL and UCL would be the only relevant club competitions for the next few years. La Liga would lose so much of its appeal in the short term.

I would stop watching Liga and wait for strong moves from the boards to the players and watch more EPL if so. I already stopped watching all the matchs awhile ago but no Leo Messi no party for me. Real is average, Liga overestimated. Always the same "referre scandals" garbage.
Nothing looks promising.

Anyway, we're going to be confine again,no?

 

[Marie-Antoinette]

...
and them getting there is not down to his leadership as a captain either.

Alright, he qualified his NT to the world cup by himself, twice. Led them to finals, without Di Maria who was supposed to be his Valdano. But 'not as a captain'?
As what?
What did he have to do? And how can anybody tell about Masche "El cheferito" ? So much being told yet no proofs at all.

 

[Jadentheman]

if I'm rating a player for how good they were on the pitch then Ronaldinho is #1

as for the world cup argument, its gonna leave dent in his legacy theres no doubt about it. if he had a world cup to his name I think that would of been case closed for neutrals also in terms of Ronaldo vs Messi. I was so pissed watching that final vs Germany.. it was his one chance. just one moment of magic.. I can remember sitting on the edge of my seat as if it was England in that final

in the social media age where we have the chance to analyse each player and rewatch every second of their careers; Messi will be #1 of this generation for sure as we can look in depth at the stats.

records show Ronaldo scoring in those CL finals but if you rewatch the matches he was utter dogshit. records also show his goal scoring numbers this season but we can easily see they are totally inflated by dodgy penalties

That match was painful to watch. And you could see him trying and trying even as teh minutes were dying. He had one good chance and he missed it. And it was from one spot that he usually gets goals in. Don't even get me started on Higuian..Then Gotze scored