Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi V2

[KingLeo10]

Think Madrid managed to be one of the only big teams to lose possession vs Simeone's Atletico in 2016 CL final .

They also won those CLs without pressing or "modern" tactics. In their 4-1 v Juve, they ran like 103 km (115 is the standard for a good pressing team ). When we run 103 km, we get blown the fuck out

History: Juventus 1-4 Real Madrid: UEFA Champions League 2016/17 Final

Juventus vs Real Madrid 2016/17. All UEFA Champions League match information including stats, goals, results, history, and more.

www.uefa.com

 

[malvolio]

Not even top 30 all-time midfielders? That's too harsh.

Players, of course.

 

[serghei]

They could do that because of what I wrote. Their back 5 was insanely strong. Backline + keeper.

 

[serghei]

And the joker was Ramos' clutch goals. How I wish we had someone like that when everything else we threw at teams failed. You're in trouble vs Inter in 2010 and needing a goal to kill the feckers? Bam, Ramos, goal, you're through.

Pique was a fecking wuss by comparison. Even though I picked the one match where he scored a big goal .

 

[malvolio]

In that match, Buffon also had like probably 2nd best critical save I've ever seen from a keeper at such a level after Dibu's save.

Dibu's save is overrated a bit. Mostly due to his adversary being Kolo Muani, an elite level unknown bum.

Great moment nonetheless.

 

[serghei]

Dibu's save is overrated a bit. Mostly due to his adversary being Kolo Muani, an elite level unknown bum.

Great moment nonetheless.

I don't think so mate. Quite the contrary, for me it was a fine finish. The save was unreal. I think only peak Neuer could have done something like that.

 

[malvolio]

I don't think so mate. Quite the contrary, for me it was a fine finish. The save was unreal. I think only peak Neuer could have done something like that.

I'd wager semi-retired fat fuck Inter Miami player Luis Suarez would have finished that no problem.

 

[vegitot]

ZZ was absolute class. Cunt but his leadership presence and aura were almost Maradona level.

Panenka penalty goal in WC final 06 against prime Buffon (imagine the balls to do this)
2 headers to kill WC 98 final
Volley golazo to win CL final

Modric has no such standout mo

ZZ also only won total of 1 Liga tittle in 5 years with RM. And also went 3 empty hand seasons in a row with both Juventus and RM. I'm not sure about his aura. He was inconsistent at club level. Did have big moments and people will remember more. But when it comes to consistency Modric completely beat him.

Btw, panenka pk in 06 happened very early, like 10th minute of the match when the score was 0-0. I think it is not that big (compare to Messi's panenka in pk shoot out for example).

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Zidane was inconsistent ( compared to Modric, Iniesta,Xavi) but when he was in mood he was unplayabale, thats why ppl rate him so high. Nevertheless i rate Iniesta&Xavi at his level, they had not the same spotlight like Zidane but playing-wise i dont think prime I&X were worse 💯

 

[soul24rage]

15 years ago

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1839243612996935930

 

[Maradona37]

It's gonna be sad when he retires. He's been such a fantastic footballer to watch, with a combination of skills no other player in history possesses (amalgamating all of all-time great goalscoring, passing, playmaking, dribbling, finishing, vision and free-kick taking into one supreme player).

We can only hope we see a similar type of magician in the (hopefully) 45 years (I at least) have left to live.

 

[Maradona37]

Such clutch player that he led his team to 1 La liga title, 2 Serie A and 1 CL while playing for the best teams in the world during his career. Laughable compared to Modrić, Xavi and Iniesta.


The reason his myth exist is the WC98 finals goals (just the goals, not his play), Leverkusen goal and WC06 wich he ruined in the end because he can't control himself. And a couple of nice touches and flicks. A very good player but this argument started because someone called him Goat lol, not even close.

I get your point about Zidane but (and this will sound antithetical to everything football is about, but bear with me), there wasn't the extreme zoning in on stats and trophies back then. And the international game was prized by more players too. Back then teams didn't generally win title after title (unless it was Man United in the PL). Teams overall levels were more spread out and there were fewer super teams lording it over the rest of the league (I appreciate the irony of me saying this as Zidane played with the Galacticos, but I would argue that team was thrown together more for glamour rather than as a serious football outfit). I would suggest if ZZ was playing in this era and was more professional about his career and playing for these super teams now, he would have won plenty more league titles and CLs.

I do see and fully accept your point, and what I am saying does sound like a cop out. But it is kinda true that since the social media era started there's become an obsession with rating players on their stats and trophies, rather than just their sheer ability and what they had as a player. That's fair enough as you need to translate that ability into success, but I don't think it's as simple as Modric, Xavi and Iniesta won more ergo they're better (not saying you implied that, just an argument I heard elsewhere). You have to take into account context and circumstances.

Despite all that, I prefer Xavi to Zidane. And I say this as someone for whom Zidane was a childhood footballing idol.

 

[TheStig]

It's just about what is more important to each of us. If you value more longevity, trophies, constant quality every 3 days for 15 years than Modrić, Xavi and Iniesta are in front of Zizou.

If you value peak, big game moments, elegance...than only Iniesta can compare with ZZ.

I think we can all agree those are the big 4 of midfielders in the last 30 years.

 

[Maradona37]

It's just about what is more important to each of us. If you value more longevity, trophies, constant quality every 3 days for 15 years than Modrić, Xavi and Iniesta are in front of Zizou.

If you value peak, big game moments, elegance...than only Iniesta can compare with ZZ.

I think we can all agree those are the big 4 of midfielders in the last 30 years.

I agree, and that was essentially what I was saying in my post (and the same sort of point I have made about Cristiano Ronaldo relative to past peers).

I am more of an ability man than career or stats or trophies or longevity, but I know that not everyone is like that. What I love about Xavi is in that in my 30-40 years watching football, I had never seen a player like him before - by that I mean I had never seen a midfielder whose sheer presence guaranteed control of the game and ball regardless of quality of opposition, and whose name on the team sheet forced the opponent to play defensively in a low block and accept they'd very very likely have less possession.

Now of course that wasn't only down to Xavi in the great Barca side, but he was the heartbeat of that midfield, and this ability to relentlessly control games is why I consider him the greatest central midfielder I have ever seen next to Lothar Matthaus.

He didn't have the big moments, invention, sheer wtf of Zidane, but he was supremely intelligent, had an acute spatial awareness and - crucially - made the right decision 99.9 percent of the time. He and Barca showed that a new way of playing could be possible in this millennium, as in the decade or two before it had been mostly you attack we attack counter-style.

I've gone off on a tangent but I am just explaining why I loved Xavi so much as a player. I'd also agree he, Iniesta, Modric and Zidane are the big four of the last 30 years. I'd be tempted to add Kroos and Pirlo in too and make a big 6. Other guys like Davids, Busquets, Seedorf, Scholes, Redondo, Makelele etc were brilliant but not quite at that level for me.

 

[vegitot]

I get your point about Zidane but (and this will sound antithetical to everything football is about, but bear with me), there wasn't the extreme zoning in on stats and trophies back then. And the international game was prized by more players too. Back then teams didn't generally win title after title (unless it was Man United in the PL). Teams overall levels were more spread out and there were fewer super teams lording it over the rest of the league (I appreciate the irony of me saying this as Zidane played with the Galacticos, but I would argue that team was thrown together more for glamour rather than as a serious football outfit). I would suggest if ZZ was playing in this era and was more professional about his career and playing for these super teams now, he would have won plenty more league titles and CLs.

I do see and fully accept your point, and what I am saying does sound like a cop out. But it is kinda true that since the social media era started there's become an obsession with rating players on their stats and trophies, rather than just their sheer ability and what they had as a player. That's fair enough as you need to translate that ability into success, but I don't think it's as simple as Modric, Xavi and Iniesta won more ergo they're better (not saying you implied that, just an argument I heard elsewhere). You have to take into account context and circumstances.

Despite all that, I prefer Xavi to Zidane. And I say this as someone for whom Zidane was a childhood footballing idol.

Zidane joined Juventus (UCL champion and Serie A winner). They won two consecutive Serie A and reached 3 consecutive UCL finals from 1996-98. Clearly a dominant team (strongest team in Italy at that time).

Then he joined Galacticos, also won Laliga and UCL before his arrival. Another strong and wealthy side.

So he all played for strongest, wealthiest teams. Not like he played for Granada or Elche.

Messi somehow was criticized because he "only won 4 UCL tittles".