DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
Douglas should be given a chance. He is Dani's true heir.
Luis Enrique
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Douglas should be given a chance. He is Dani's true heir.
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
On a serious note, then I hope he cuts out his current system. It makes no use of Rakitic and the other CMs talent and it further exposes our FBs who are barely able to create any danger at all. Alves can't even beat his marker. Put him up against a 16 year old rookie and he'll probably struggle to beat him on a 1v1 and would instead go back to his pointless crosses.
Alba is not very effective either.
And this is just talking about the attacking aspect of the game. Defensively it's just a mess. When the opposition is allowed to freely roam in your half and get to chances then you know things are bad. Several teams don't manage to take an advantage of that, but the top teams? They're gonna steamroll us if it stays exactly the same.
Today's game is an important one and it would be interesting to see if he makes any changes whatsoever or sticks to the same plan(which he said he will in his press conference), because I am sure that Ajax will do whatever they can to not repeat the same mistakes again.
Alba is not very effective either.
And this is just talking about the attacking aspect of the game. Defensively it's just a mess. When the opposition is allowed to freely roam in your half and get to chances then you know things are bad. Several teams don't manage to take an advantage of that, but the top teams? They're gonna steamroll us if it stays exactly the same.
Today's game is an important one and it would be interesting to see if he makes any changes whatsoever or sticks to the same plan(which he said he will in his press conference), because I am sure that Ajax will do whatever they can to not repeat the same mistakes again.
Last edited:
i_bleed_blaugrana
Senior Member
The Celta game showcased a perfect example of some struggles we will continue to have, tactically speaking, if Lucho continues on his train of thought.
From a purely tactical aspect, Lucho has us playing in a 3-4-3/3-4-1-2. Using Celta's line-up, it looked somewhat like this:
Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com
What is wrong with that picture above? Its the huge space in between our MF and our defensive lines and it showcases some of the contradictions in Lucho's setup and overall philosophy right now. He wants to play dynamically and direct but can also control a match thru possession. Right now, we only have players who can play one way or the other. Lucho's remedy to mix these players in a line-up in an attempt to force different styles in the same line-up is causing problems with different players being on different wavelengths instead of having all 11 players cohesively united throughout the pitch, all looking to do the same thing. So instead of trying to force players to do certain things that aren't their strengths, Lucho needs to create almost two teams: one the plays direct and the other that plays possession.
For starters, let me go on record and say that this 3-4-3ish formation isn't a bad idea at all if he wants us to play more direct but he needs to put the right players in the situation to do so. Here would be my tweaks in order for Barca to play more direct in a similar set up that Lucho seems to want:
Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics
In some ways its more of a 3-4-2-1 but for a more direct approach, this makes a lot of sense. Pedro in the Alves role would, in my opinion, would get the best out of Pedro and offer the same benefits tactically that Alves brings to our attacking approach. The key here is that the creative impetuous is put upon Neymar and Messi and it allows them to link-up more, something they have shown this season yields good results. It also puts Suarez back in his natural position as well but it doesn't hinder Messi's ability to roam, thus the triangle. Whenever Messi pushes forward, Suarez can move wide right and Neymar to the left, going back to traditional 3-4-3. But most importantly, whenever Pedro and Alba push forward, it creates an avenue for both Neymar and Messi to run into and attack the box with speed. Busquets offers control and support in the build up while Mascherano sweeps the MF, protects the back three and snuffs out counter attacks.
All that is is putting better players in the position to achieve what he wants tactically. Other than Pedro in Alves' role, pushing Mascherano forward and dropping Rafinha in favor of Pique for more defensive stability, its pretty similar tactics to what he did against Celta, narrow front three with the MF cover for the width provided by the wide wingers. We have pace, defensive stability, dynamism up top with control and cover through the center.
For the control however, I'd say go back to Pep's 2008-09 setup. Neymar as Henry, Suarez as Eto'o and obviously Messi free roaming in the center and to the right. Back to formations!:
Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics
Nothing surprising, but for a control game, a 4-3-3 with only one attacking fullback I think is the way forward. With Bartra locking down the right and playing at home, it frees up the midfield and again allows us to control and play tiki-taka. It allows them to play tighter triangles, play one-touch football and play the football we are known for without being continually skinned on the counter attack. Bartra as RB>Montoya/Alves/Doulgas purely because of his height. Its simply a must to have three tall defenders nowadays.
Call me crazy but when Iniesta comes back and the same back line, I think a MF of Xavi-Rakitic-Iniesta wouldn't be bad at all. Raki can play the DM role well and I wouldn't mind seeing him in that position, particularly if Madrid want to play an all attacking midfield.
Thoughts?
From a purely tactical aspect, Lucho has us playing in a 3-4-3/3-4-1-2. Using Celta's line-up, it looked somewhat like this:
Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com
What is wrong with that picture above? Its the huge space in between our MF and our defensive lines and it showcases some of the contradictions in Lucho's setup and overall philosophy right now. He wants to play dynamically and direct but can also control a match thru possession. Right now, we only have players who can play one way or the other. Lucho's remedy to mix these players in a line-up in an attempt to force different styles in the same line-up is causing problems with different players being on different wavelengths instead of having all 11 players cohesively united throughout the pitch, all looking to do the same thing. So instead of trying to force players to do certain things that aren't their strengths, Lucho needs to create almost two teams: one the plays direct and the other that plays possession.
For starters, let me go on record and say that this 3-4-3ish formation isn't a bad idea at all if he wants us to play more direct but he needs to put the right players in the situation to do so. Here would be my tweaks in order for Barca to play more direct in a similar set up that Lucho seems to want:
Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics
In some ways its more of a 3-4-2-1 but for a more direct approach, this makes a lot of sense. Pedro in the Alves role would, in my opinion, would get the best out of Pedro and offer the same benefits tactically that Alves brings to our attacking approach. The key here is that the creative impetuous is put upon Neymar and Messi and it allows them to link-up more, something they have shown this season yields good results. It also puts Suarez back in his natural position as well but it doesn't hinder Messi's ability to roam, thus the triangle. Whenever Messi pushes forward, Suarez can move wide right and Neymar to the left, going back to traditional 3-4-3. But most importantly, whenever Pedro and Alba push forward, it creates an avenue for both Neymar and Messi to run into and attack the box with speed. Busquets offers control and support in the build up while Mascherano sweeps the MF, protects the back three and snuffs out counter attacks.
All that is is putting better players in the position to achieve what he wants tactically. Other than Pedro in Alves' role, pushing Mascherano forward and dropping Rafinha in favor of Pique for more defensive stability, its pretty similar tactics to what he did against Celta, narrow front three with the MF cover for the width provided by the wide wingers. We have pace, defensive stability, dynamism up top with control and cover through the center.
For the control however, I'd say go back to Pep's 2008-09 setup. Neymar as Henry, Suarez as Eto'o and obviously Messi free roaming in the center and to the right. Back to formations!:
Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics
Nothing surprising, but for a control game, a 4-3-3 with only one attacking fullback I think is the way forward. With Bartra locking down the right and playing at home, it frees up the midfield and again allows us to control and play tiki-taka. It allows them to play tighter triangles, play one-touch football and play the football we are known for without being continually skinned on the counter attack. Bartra as RB>Montoya/Alves/Doulgas purely because of his height. Its simply a must to have three tall defenders nowadays.
Call me crazy but when Iniesta comes back and the same back line, I think a MF of Xavi-Rakitic-Iniesta wouldn't be bad at all. Raki can play the DM role well and I wouldn't mind seeing him in that position, particularly if Madrid want to play an all attacking midfield.
Thoughts?
i_bleed_blaugrana
Senior Member
Sorry for the double post, I tried attaching a screenshot from the actual game in the first post but it didn't work so I just made the line-up myself. My bad.
ManusXavi
New member
I like the Idea of both Busquets and Mascherano in the midfield, in the big matches
F
Flavia
Guest
Must read, by Graham Hunter: http://www.espnfc.com/spanish-prime...-this-season-about-luis-enrique-and-barcelona
ViscaBarca914
BLASPHEMY!
Definite must read 
ScoobySquats
New member
As always you give very thorough and detailed tactical layouts. +1
Wish we had more level headed posters instead of ones who say "OMG DANI OUT, PEDRO
, OUT LUCHO, OUT MESSIIII!!" I agreed with all your points, especially how Pedro can be a great RM given his work rate and general link-up with the rest of our midfield and forwards san the past 3 seasons
BarçAjax8
New member
I'm not going to say "sack him", but with Mathieu's injury if Bartra doesn't start and Mascherano is at CB then Lucho has NO SACK.
Cules on this forum argue we should move past Pep's days in charge but it's really hard when the only other direction is down. Pep had the guts to bench and out-of-form Pique and play Mascherano at CB but now Lucho needs to show some guts and not play Masche @ CB.
I think the board is still the source of all our problems and they wen't on a spending spree because A)They were facing a ban so they HAD TO & B)To please the supporters and maybe get some votes. We had a lot of clean sheets to start the season and we were happy with it but it seems theres a lot going on behind the scenes that's coming out day after day.
Cules on this forum argue we should move past Pep's days in charge but it's really hard when the only other direction is down. Pep had the guts to bench and out-of-form Pique and play Mascherano at CB but now Lucho needs to show some guts and not play Masche @ CB.
I think the board is still the source of all our problems and they wen't on a spending spree because A)They were facing a ban so they HAD TO & B)To please the supporters and maybe get some votes. We had a lot of clean sheets to start the season and we were happy with it but it seems theres a lot going on behind the scenes that's coming out day after day.
Very good read.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
No if he succeeds
KAWSHIK123
New member
Our current footballing style is a shadow of tiki-taka, tiki taka is about intricate passing and attacking the space. Look at pep's bayern they are a perfect combination of intricate passing and long shots. I think first of all we need an experience manager like kloop who can put his own philosophy into the team.Rather then bringing in another inexperience manager and hoping for a "Pep effect". I think we wasted the summer transfer window after Suarez and Vermaelan, when we should have bring two top quality centre mids and a CB like Marquinhos. Unfortunately the board have wasted the transfer window, and now we have to wait untill 2016 to see some changes.
jamrock
Senior Member
I don't know why people are writing long post and over complicating everything, which at the end of the say is very simple.
like i said from the preseason and it continues to today, you don't have ur damn midfielders player as water carriers for your fullbacks, and thus leaving your DM in no mans land trying to cover the entire midfield.
You don't put your FB's that high up he pitch and have your midfield being cover by only one DM.
it gives the opposition more space, than i have ever seen in any single system in my who entire life of, watching football.
`
to fix the problem? bring your midfielders back!
like i said from the preseason and it continues to today, you don't have ur damn midfielders player as water carriers for your fullbacks, and thus leaving your DM in no mans land trying to cover the entire midfield.
You don't put your FB's that high up he pitch and have your midfield being cover by only one DM.
it gives the opposition more space, than i have ever seen in any single system in my who entire life of, watching football.
`
to fix the problem? bring your midfielders back!
@i_bleed_blaugrana
Great post once again
It's obvious that there is 3 key elements that we must address to succeed.
-Creating a true partnership between the 3 strikers without constraining them (don't know if it is possible).
-Achieving equilibrium in the midfield, which i think can only be obtained by given Rakitic more responsibilities.
-Favouring construction through the axis, with the wings used to stretch the defense and not the other way around.
Great post once again
It's obvious that there is 3 key elements that we must address to succeed.
-Creating a true partnership between the 3 strikers without constraining them (don't know if it is possible).
-Achieving equilibrium in the midfield, which i think can only be obtained by given Rakitic more responsibilities.
-Favouring construction through the axis, with the wings used to stretch the defense and not the other way around.
Toecrusher
New member
For starters, let me go on record and say that this 3-4-3ish formation isn't a bad idea at all if he wants us to play more direct but he needs to put the right players in the situation to do so. Here would be my tweaks in order for Barca to play more direct in a similar set up that Lucho seems to want:
Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics
In some ways its more of a 3-4-2-1 but for a more direct approach, this makes a lot of sense. Pedro in the Alves role would, in my opinion, would get the best out of Pedro and offer the same benefits tactically that Alves brings to our attacking approach. The key here is that the creative impetuous is put upon Neymar and Messi and it allows them to link-up more, something they have shown this season yields good results. It also puts Suarez back in his natural position as well but it doesn't hinder Messi's ability to roam, thus the triangle. Whenever Messi pushes forward, Suarez can move wide right and Neymar to the left, going back to traditional 3-4-3. But most importantly, whenever Pedro and Alba push forward, it creates an avenue for both Neymar and Messi to run into and attack the box with speed. Busquets offers control and support in the build up while Mascherano sweeps the MF, protects the back three and snuffs out counter attacks.
All that is is putting better players in the position to achieve what he wants tactically. Other than Pedro in Alves' role, pushing Mascherano forward and dropping Rafinha in favor of Pique for more defensive stability, its pretty similar tactics to what he did against Celta, narrow front three with the MF cover for the width provided by the wide wingers. We have pace, defensive stability, dynamism up top with control and cover through the center.
Agree with this one...its pretty similar to what I had outlined in the tactics thread
Been thinking up formations in the past week with all the frustration.
In particular was trying to come up with a formation that maximises our squad, the players individual skillsets, while maintaining team balance (i.e. Lucho's job!)
Below is what I settled on.
Positives
- Suarez in his best position
- Messi and Neymar in familiar positions, centrally
- Creative burden shared between Messi and Neymar
- Width (attack and defense) with Pedro and Alba
- Using Pedro's best attributes (workrate, stamina, crossing, runs behind the defence into space)
- Ability to attack from centre, with midfielders (and AMs) close enough to play triangles
- Defensive stability with 3 permanent centre backs, reducing counterattack danger
- Midfield defensive support for Busquets
- Iniesta/Rakitic playing a deep lying playmaking role, with some defensive responsibilities (ala Modric)
- Defensive responsibility of front 3 reduced
Current Problems it addresses
- Messi isolation
- Busquets isolation
- Counterattack threat
- Creative burden on FBs
- CMs babysitting FBs
- No midfield creativity
- Height at setpieces (with atleast two tall CBs at all times)
- Dani Alves (!)
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