Luis Enrique

[sumo]

In the end what you want is angles. A near flawless team like the 2011 one didn't need angles because it was too good -- basically, we played our game and that was too much for everyone.

I don't think it's fair to say that the 2011 team was so much 'better' than todays Barca. A lot of that success came from the circumstances: The right kind of players, with the right kind of coach, implementing a system that other teams weren't prepared to deal with. Athletico Madrid was a team designed to deal with exactly the style of football that emerged from Barcas success...

In many ways the pattern reflects history too: Pep Guardiola's Barca, when he was a player, and Cruyff was a coach. Then came Diego Simeone's (as a player) Atleti, as a response to that type of game.

The type of game a team plays needs to evolve to fit the circumstances. As Pep Guardiola says: It's about controlling a match, possession is merely one way of exerting control. You can see this in how Peps Bayern plays a much faster, more direct, style than 2011 Barca. It's not entirely because of the players, it's also because the game has evolved...

 

[raki]

We will suffer more against a team that has Modric-Isco-Kroos or Bayern that against Atletico or Chelsea. Our midfield does not have the possession skills that used to be.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

Barca's entire offense in that first half consistent only of 3 counters, of which all 3 resulted in goals. Perfect efficiency hid the nullification of play. Not even perfect either since a referee error took away one goal and allow for another to happen. Barca's game was stumped right enough. And again, why argue with that tired "old outdated way of playing possession" premise, when Barca were even unable to play like they did vs Atleti in the previous 2 matches just days before.

But fair enough, you guys want to ride the high of the win and not acknowledge the issue exposed by the high pressure on our CBs by Atleti in the first half. Let's hope when it happens again our front 3 can be as perfectly efficient on their counters and opportunities as they were.

I'm with you completely on this Sumlit, and have been saying exactly the same thing over in the Match thread. While having made great strides in overcoming several other longstanding problems, I don't think this Barça has seen this kind of pressure often enough to have evolved a good strategy. While some here rationalize booting the ball up the field to be intercepted as a "strategy," one can be sure Lucho will be looking at the great difficulty Barça had handling the pressure and trying to come up with tactics/lineups to better handle such oppositions in the future.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

So again, I am NOT saying the team needs to go back to the previous system, dominate possession, slow down play, etc etc. I AM saying they need to deal with deep pressure better and get out of it under more control and less wildly than they did those first 45 mins.

Spot on.

 

[BBZ8800]

We will suffer more against a team that has Modric-Isco-Kroos or Bayern that against Atletico or Chelsea. Our midfield does not have the possession skills that used to be.

Again, compared to WHAT?

You say that we will have problems against Real or Bayern.
When was the last time when we HADN'T problems against Real or Bayern?
When was the last time that we both DOMINATED the game on passing and possession and when we also 2:0 won or similar against big teams?

Our midfield does not have the possession skills that used to be.

So what?
We won't have the possession anymore?
(I am not saying that we have perfect players and that we shouldn't try to improve, but...)

Do we play a football to win matches or to have possession?
No team in the world will ever have the possession the same as Xavi-Iniesta-Busi-Messi on their prime.

We tried to replicate that era, and it is not working anymore. (Both because our players are not on their prime+the opponents have evolved and learned how to neutralize us)
Ok, we will have to control the game slightly better against big teams, but currently we had only one "weaker" half.

You sound sad because we won't play possession-football style in the way that we played before.
Again, it wasn't a control of the match, but only "a false control" of the match.

BAsically, you are sad because we won't have "a false control of the match anymore."

 

[rixxer]

I agree with the part that we have to handle that kind of pressure a bit better. Hoofing a long ball is okay, if necessary, but you just can't really rely on that and the first goal Ney scored was actually a proof- a little genius just dummied a rushing defender, a short pass to Suarez, and he turned a brilliant, but not that complicated pass to Ney and expert finish by brazilian as well.

But I am sure that we are able to improve our play under severe pressure: firstly, I just refuse to believe Iniesta is finshed in this regard. He will adapt and will also recover his form. I am sure the part of his problem is that he's not adapted to that kind of play, because that such games are still very very rare. His form is not maybe even the biggest issue, he he is doing good lately, actually. And I firmly believe Barca has competent midfielders to overcome that kind of pressure: skillset are there, no doubt about it. What's the meaning of rondos then anyway? Secondly, even very top, top teams can not pressurize like that more than 30 minutes in a row, it is just inhuman and lot of teams actually are not built/trained to play like taht at all, it requiers smth special, as Cholo is special case.
However, there were definitely certain special factors (actually a combination of those factors) that forced lucho to adapt that kind of play. I agree that game in Calderon showed our true strengths, but it also pointed to our possible weaknesses and those chapters have to be adressed by Lucho and the team in their studies.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

But I am sure that we are able to improve our play under severe pressure

My observation is that Rakitic is particularly poor under pressure. He's not good at scanning player positions before receiving the ball (especially with back to goal), and when he doesn't have time to look around, he is often forced into poor passes. This isn't revealed when opponents sit back and he is looking upfield most of the time, and he was excellent in the first two games against Atletico.

So, until/if he ever improves in this regard, how does Barça set up the midfield to handle pressure better? Rafinha?

 

[rixxer]

My observation is that Rakitic is particularly poor under pressure. He's not good at scanning player positions before receiving the ball (especially with back to goal), and when he doesn't have time to look around, he is often forced into poor passes. This isn't revealed when opponents sit back and he is looking upfield most of the time, and he was excellent in the first two games against Atletico.

So, until/if he ever improves in this regard, how does Barça set up the midfield to handle pressure better? Rafinha?

Rakitic was excellent under pressure in Sevilla as far i was watching their games (against Barca, Madrid e.g), so there is hope, especially important is to develop his understanding with attackers during hard pressure, to get accustomed their movements. Yeah, he is not Xavi, but he can definitely improve. Also, Rafinha might be solution (of course, not tested...) and we still have Xavi...although they say smth about old dog and new tricks, but still, it was not unique that Atleti offered on wednesday, Madrid has previously done the same in first 20-30 minutes under Guardiola. xavi just can't play regularly in very high standard, but occasionally might be solution. However, my take is that it is not the question of skill or lack of skill, but more like adaption, getting used to play like that, because we won't have to suffer that kind of thing often.

 

[DrPepper]

Like Kohe said, tiki taka often gave us a false sense of control, whereas yesterday by not controlling the game we ended up controlling the game hehe if that makes sense.

This.

Basically there are two types of control; controlling the ball and controlling the spaces. It's incredibly difficult to do both - only Guardiola managed to do it consistently - but being able to control one part of it isn't much worse. Against Atletico we opted to control the spaces and did well.


Keep in mind, though, that us having more ball control (against Atletico) could have meant us not scoring those two goals on the counter attack because we would have slowed down the game instead. Maybe Atletico would have won the tie then, who knows.

I mean, how many clear chances did Atletico really create? Only the Griezmann shot comes to mind, Torres goal was a difficult but brilliant finish. Rather have less control of the ball but controlling spaces and thus restricting chances than having more of the ball but conceding spaces and chances.

 

[mssarm]

We will suffer more against a team that has Modric-Isco-Kroos or Bayern that against Atletico or Chelsea. Our midfield does not have the possession skills that used to be.

And those teams know how to play against us when we play our possession game. This is not 2010. Time to move on. RM proofed the point when trashed Pep's Bayern in UCL. We need to evolve .

 

[Sumlit]

I'm with you completely on this Sumlit, and have been saying exactly the same thing over in the Match thread. While having made great strides in overcoming several other longstanding problems, I don't think this Barça has seen this kind of pressure often enough to have evolved a good strategy. While some here rationalize booting the ball up the field to be intercepted as a "strategy," one can be sure Lucho will be looking at the great difficulty Barça had handling the pressure and trying to come up with tactics/lineups to better handle such oppositions in the future.

Yeah I read you comments in that thread late last night. We are in agreement.

 

[SeloBarca]

My observation is that Rakitic is particularly poor under pressure. He's not good at scanning player positions before receiving the ball (especially with back to goal), and when he doesn't have time to look around, he is often forced into poor passes. This isn't revealed when opponents sit back and he is looking upfield most of the time, and he was excellent in the first two games against Atletico.

So, until/if he ever improves in this regard, how does Barça set up the midfield to handle pressure better? Rafinha?

Rakitic needs alot of time recieving the ball, look up, then deliver it, whereas Xavi seeked out passingoptions before recieving the ball.
Unfortunally you dont have time to wait against better teams so Raki looses possesion alot under preassure.
Can only hope he becomes better at it.

 

[Behrox]

Rakitic needs alot of time recieving the ball, look up, then deliver it, whereas Xavi seeked out passingoptions before recieving the ball.
Unfortunally you dont have time to wait against better teams so Raki looses possesion alot under preassure.
Can only hope he becomes better at it.

Thats why our current style suits us better with fast attacks instead of very slow build ups. Plus Rakitic has massively improved the link up with Dani and Messi on the RW while provide balance both offensively and defensively

 

[DonAndres]

Idk why so many people are disagreeing with Sumlit here .

His suggestions make perfect sense. As good as the approach was to take things quickly against Atleti, it was a rough execution and not at all refined tactically. Sumlit is very correct in his observation that we spent most of our time pinned back and struggling to push out of our own half. Turnovers galore meant that we could barely have 'proper' transitions into the attacking half. This even led to their goals and chances. We can't build a philosophy around hopeful and unfavorable long balls that might or might not catch our forwards at lucky angles so that they can break and maybe turn a half chance into a real chance through individual brilliance. It was chaos and we came out on top in what was just a gamble on probability. Atleti submit to this chaos as it is their nature as a team to do so and therefore our advantage (MSN) proved decisive. A team like Bayern, Real, or even Chelsea won't just indulge our attempt to make the game a crazy gamble. Bayern or Real could easily pin us back and dominate the game if we try and pull that shit. Even Lucho understood that the tactics in the first half were not feasible to continue after we had come away with a lead at HT (due to some very clinical finishing, a bit more fortunate than we should ever expect).

The ideal is the type of football we played in the 3-1 win over Atletico. We played with quickness and purpose in attack, our transitions were great and very difficult to defend against. Yet at the same time, our buildup patterns and passing avenues were often clear and efficient. We spent a good amount of time pressing high up the pitch and breaking their defense down by controlling the play. We picked the tempo up and committed forward more often to induce a sort of 'verticality'. We played 'fast football' with skill and quickness so that we could hit them before they adjusted. We still played with buildup and control, the kind that our team is very familiar with. It was very systematic, not random and ambitious. The way we played in the 2-3 win caught us out of control as much as it did them. In the 3-1 we were clearly dominant and in charge, only this time we had a forward emphasis. It's not unlike what RM plays tbh, except we don't spread it wide nearly as much in the final third.

 

[FCBarca]

I like the intensity of this side under Lucho but I don't enjoy the tactics or style of play - the 3-1 win against the other scum from the capital was the exception

I had my doubts about Enrique taking over since he was never compelling with Roma & Celta Vigo, much less Barca B, for me...With elections on the horizon, his future at the reins is in serious doubt unless there are trophies & improvement in overall play

Without this trident of Suarez, Leo & Neymar, however, the season would be as passionless as the last under Tata