Luis Enrique

[JamDav1982]

Oh god, I meant Aryagorn and before talking-stuffs about Pep not you.

Young players did leave on loans when Pep was at club is my point.

Can remember the clamour to take Botia back when he was at Gijon on loan.

Also there seems to be this belief that Lucho or club selling young players with buy backs is new and wrong. This happened in the past under Pep as well. Players like Gio Dos Santos, Crosas, Romeu all sold for fairly cheap prices with buy backs.

None of this is new.

 

[jamrock]

Difference in loan, was that pep and Barcelona by enlarge of course they are a few exceptions, but by Enlarge, he/we didn't loan out players we thought had the potential to play for us, Because loaning them out would add zero to them, as Barcelona football is/was different and unique, so you would loan them out and then have to get rid of there bad habits once they come back.

Once player leaved Barcelona on loan, you knew that was in end of him, but the players he thought has potential, he would keep in house and develop himself.

Loco leaves the development to others, is it a crime?. But don't be acting like he is some kinda expect at developing players and giving them a chance, like a van gaal or pep.

 

[El Flaco]

Pep Guardiola's and Luis Enrique's first two seasons at Barcelona

Pep:

1st Season:

- La Liga: 27 wins in 38 games
- Copa del Rey: 7 wins in 9 games
- Champions League: 7 wins in 15 games
- Total: 41 wins in 62 games

2nd season:

- La Liga: 31 wins in 38 games
- Copa del Rey: 3 wins in 4 games
- Champions League: 6 wins in 12 games
- Supercopa de Espana: 2 wins in 2 games
- UEFA Super Cup: 1 win in 1 game
- Club World Cup: 2 wins in 2 games
- Total: 45 wins in 59 games

2 season total: 86 wins in 121 games
It took Pep 19 games into his 3rd season to win his 100th.

Lucho:

1st Season:

- La Liga: 30 wins in 38 games
- Copa del Rey: 9 wins in 9 games
- Champions League: 11 wins in 13 games
- Total: 50 wins in 60 games

2nd season:

- La Liga: 29 wins in 38 games
- Copa del Rey: 7 wins in 9 games
- Champions League: 7 wins in 10 games
- Supercopa de Espana: 0 wins in 2 games
- UEFA Super Cup: 1 win in 1 game
- Club World Cup: 2 wins in 2 games
- Total: 46 wins in 62 games

2 season total: 96 wins in 122 games
It took Lucho his 100th game as Barca manager in the 4th game of his third season.

 

[El Flaco]

For all the good Pep did for our youth setup and youth players, he also sometimes prioritized winning rather than youth development. Pep brought players such as 21yo pique , 22 yo sanchez , 23yo alba, 21 yo caceres , 20yo kerrison , 21 yo chygrynskiy , and other players while players such as nolito, romeu , giovanni were all dismissed by pep as he decided they werent good enough. this is no different to what Lucho is doing now.

Pep wanted to promote Nolito to the first team, but the latter declined the offer and left because we'd David Villa on left side.

Nolito simply wanted more playing time for his own development.

 

[FCBarca]

Young players did leave on loans when Pep was at club is my point.

Can remember the clamour to take Botia back when he was at Gijon on loan.

Also there seems to be this belief that Lucho or club selling young players with buy backs is new and wrong. This happened in the past under Pep as well. Players like Gio Dos Santos, Crosas, Romeu all sold for fairly cheap prices with buy backs.

None of this is new.

Get your facts right. Dos Santos was sold before Pep arrived - plus, there was no buyback. Crosas was loaned out before Pep, as well. Romeu was part of the conveyor belt of midfield talent the club was churning out in 2011 - there were 6 midfielders in the 1st team squad with 4 rotating from the B team. Loan is logical when there is that sort of depth

 

[serghei]

Loco leaves the development to others, is it a crime?. But don't be acting like he is some kinda expect at developing players and giving them a chance, like a van gaal or pep.

He was at Bayern for 3 seasons, right? Who did Pep put in the first team? He played the old guard in the toughest games. Signed Vidal. Signed a lot of players. Signed Costa. Signed Benatia. Bernat. Signed Coman, another external talent, from Juve. Played old Alonso in midfield. Why didn't he find another Busquets and had to bring in an old player like Alonso? Why didn't he promote some youngster, and instead signed Douglas from Shakhtar? Why did he sign Tasci of all players (I heard he was rated as pretty average in Germany , and was almost 30 years old! That's the equivalent of signing Mathieu, only Jeremy actually worked decently for us at CB) instead of just using his magic touch and promoting a player from the youth ranks?

Sure, Pep deveops some young players, nobody takes that away from him, but the majority of them don't make it, the same way it is under Lucho and a lot of other very good managers. People act like he has some sort of secret tactic, one only he knows, which makes him find gems like others are unable to do, completely denying the simple and unquestionable fact that gems are gems because they are extremely rare and hard to find.

Line-up and substitutes for Bayern vs Atletico, 3rd year under Pep was: Neuer (old guys); Lahm (old guys), Javi Martinez (old guys), Boateng (old guys), Alaba (old guys); Alonso (transfer, old player); Douglas Costa (transfer), Coman (transfer), Vidal (transfer), Muller (old guys), Ribery (old guys); Lewandowski (transfer).

Surprise, surprise, 3 seasons at Bayern and he couldn't even promote a single player he could use in a tough, must-win, game, in his last season. Played the old guys and made some great transfers. If finding Busi was mostly his merit, and not the result of Busi's amazing talent, why didn't he found another diamond like that in Germany? Or, at least, why didn't he find another Pedro-like player and had to play injury-ridden Ribery? Why did he have to look for talent elsewere if he can develop domestic youth players with such efficiency?

Please, it's so obvious that without having absolute top-notch talent like Busquets, you can't actually promote anyone at an insanely high level, like certain people pretend.

What happened at Barcelona is the result of a once in a lifetime generation. Every conclusion based on exception is faulty. The sooner people accept that, the easier it is to stop comparing every manager we have with Pep.

 

[jamrock]

Oh Bwoy my post got deleted. Can't be bothered.

But let's shorten it dramatically.

Coman, no Bayern youth, but a young player juve didn't think was good enough, pep helped develop into one of the top young players in Europe

Kimmick, clearly another being developed by pep.

The man takes an interest in developing young players this in an undeniable fact, but are making the rather stupid argument that if he doesn't turn, every single young player into the great players ever it doesn't count. SMH.

People sit around there computers trying to discredit and disprove and simple fact, that not one reasonable and learnt football observer would are with, pep doesn't try to develop a young players talent.

Every single reasonable and learnt football observer knows this statement to he true, pep takes an above average interest in the development of young players.

 

[jamrock]

The absurdity and flackly boarding and stupidity argument that some keep making that pep didn't turn every single player into a WC performer and didn't play a young player at every single opportunity is just ridiculous and frankly doesn't warrant much more of a reply.

To make the simple and factually current argument that pep was and remains a manager that is interested in developing a young player and to make the intellectual leap to say, why doesn't he promote every single player and then turn then into WC players. Is tantamount to saying why doesn't bill gates a man who is clearly interested in philanthropy, why doesn't he try to contribute to every single cause in the world and then show actually results from each.

Failing to do some means he isn't at all interested in philanthropy.

 

[vigneshFCB]

The absurdity and flackly boarding and stupidity argument that some keep making that pep didn't turn every single player into a WC performer and didn't play a young player at every single opportunity is just ridiculous and frankly doesn't warrant much more of a reply.

To make the simple and factually current argument that pep was and remains a manager that is interested in developing a young player and to make the intellectual leap to say, why doesn't he promote every single player and then turn then into WC players. Is tantamount to saying why doesn't bill gates a man who is clearly interested in philanthropy, why doesn't he try to contribute to every single cause in the world and then show actually results from each.

Failing to do some means he isn't at all interested in philanthropy.

The point is that Guardiola clearly decided that it was not worth it to put some youngsters in the thick of the action regularly( Not all). Clearly Luis Enrique is using the same chain of reasoning to decide that Samper and Munir should be loaned.

There is not all that much difference, except there is no youngster with the talent of Busquets. At that time there was no Suarez and Neymar so Pedro could be tried out. For comparison's sake, how many youngsters were regularly tried out in Iniesta's /Alves's positions then (the equivalent of Suarez's and Neymar's positions right now)?If you want to argue otherwise, argue for the talent of Samper and Munir, not against Luis Enrique by implying that he is inferior to Guardiola.

 

[FCBarca]

I'd add Højbjerg to that list eventhough he ultimately failed at Bayern (mostly down to the player), his case was a unique one - Seems a good kid so hopefully he still fulfills his promise as a player

 

[jamrock]

The point is that Guardiola clearly decided that it was not worth it to put some youngsters in the thick of the action regularly( Not all). Clearly Luis Enrique is using the same chain of reasoning to decide that Samper and Munir should be loaned.

There is not all that much difference, except there is no youngster with the talent of Busquets. At that time there was no Suarez and Neymar so Pedro could be tried out. For comparison's sake, how many youngsters were regularly tried out in Iniesta's /Alves's positions then (the equivalent of Suarez's and Neymar's positions right now)?If you want to argue otherwise, argue for the talent of Samper and Munir, not against Luis Enrique by implying that he is inferior to Guardiola.

Expect he did put kids in the action, so yeah okay then.

 

[vigneshFCB]

Expect he did put kids in the action, so yeah okay then.

Recently, Zinchenko told the media that Guardiola told him to go on loan to PSV Eindhoven. Zinchenko wished to stay at Man City but this was Pep Guardiola's advice.

Using your logic, Guardiola did not wish to personally develop the skills of Zinchenko.


Guardiola loves the loan.

 

[JamDav1982]

Get your facts right. Dos Santos was sold before Pep arrived - plus, there was no buyback. Crosas was loaned out before Pep, as well. Romeu was part of the conveyor belt of midfield talent the club was churning out in 2011 - there were 6 midfielders in the 1st team squad with 4 rotating from the B team. Loan is logical when there is that sort of depth

Dos Santos left in 2008 when Pep took over did he not?

Crosas also left in 2008 with a buy back.

You need to check your facts.

You saying the board got rid of those players without consulting incoming Pep?

So loans and selling players with buy backs do have their place. Glad that's been agreed and your 'anti la masia' slant on it has been dropped.

Romeu wasn't loaned so check your facts.

Botia was loaned in s position not stacked.

 

[jamrock]

Recently, Zinchenko told the media that Guardiola told him to go on loan to PSV Eindhoven. Zinchenko wished to stay at Man City but this was Pep Guardiola's advice.

Using your logic, Guardiola did not wish to personally develop the skills of Zinchenko.


Guardiola loves the loan.

The same player city signed this season, that pep has never seem play probably a day in his life?.

Yeah okay then.

 

[vigneshFCB]

The same player city signed this season, that pep has never seem play probably a day in his life?.

Yeah okay then.

So Guardiola has higher priorities at present then watching Zinchenko play. Guardiola wants to analyse the seniors in the squad and implement a coherent game model.

He prioritises this higher than watching Zinchenko play, taking notes of his weaknesses and personally developing the skills of Zinchenko so as to minimise these weaknesses. He wishes to send Zinchenko on loan rather than do this personally.

I agree with him.