Luis Enrique

JamDav1982

Senior Member
The same player city signed this season, that pep has never seem play probably a day in his life?.

Yeah okay then.

You think Pep signs a player never seen play?

Yeah ok then.

Even then how much he seen him doesn't change fact he is putting their development in someone else hands.

City have far more players out on loan than Barca and Pep loaned out young players in his time in Germany and Spain.

Face it. Pep like Lucho values loans for development.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
I'd add Højbjerg to that list eventhough he ultimately failed at Bayern (mostly down to the player), his case was a unique one - Seems a good kid so hopefully he still fulfills his promise as a player

The player Pep sent on loan?

Not seen in same light as Lucho doing it?
 

Aryagorn

Improvin' Perfection!!
Guys.... What he does at City and Bayern is irrelevant really. His love for players from the Cantera is not exactly his love for the system of developing our own players per se or his ability to nurture and develop youngsters either. Just so happens that the Barca has been following a certain kind of football tactics throughout different stages of the club, from La Masia to the reserves to the first team and it happens to be the one that Pep knows the best. So there's a reason why he could get the best out of average players like Pedro. It is not because he developed the system to get the best out of these average players. It is exactly the opposite. He could use them the best because the players have been trained to play like that from their earlier days!

Lucho, on the other hand, is not able to use that system now. He brought in a flavor of his own to the tiki taka style of play that Barca has been all about for quite a while. In fact he saw how it has sort of become obsolete with managers' learning it through and coming up with different strategies to counter it! So it is not exactly fair for us to expect him to use the same youngsters who had been taught to play a whole different way throughout their life, and also keep winning at the same time!!
 

serghei

Senior Member
Oh Bwoy my post got deleted. Can't be bothered.

But let's shorten it dramatically.

Coman, no Bayern youth, but a young player juve didn't think was good enough, pep helped develop into one of the top young players in Europe

Kimmick, clearly another being developed by pep.

The man takes an interest in developing young players this in an undeniable fact, but are making the rather stupid argument that if he doesn't turn, every single young player into the great players ever it doesn't count. SMH.

People sit around there computers trying to discredit and disprove and simple fact, that not one reasonable and learnt football observer would are with, pep doesn't try to develop a young players talent.

Every single reasonable and learnt football observer knows this statement to he true, pep takes an above average interest in the development of young players.

The discussion was about promoting youth. Not about young players from Europe. In fact, signing young players instead of promoting young players has been treated as a negative here, when it's about Lucho, not Pep.

But if we are going to talk about young players, what about Germany's biggest talent in Gotze, who, after 3 season under Pep has massively regressed? Who did Pep promote into the first team, first 11, or close to first 11? Maybe Kimmick. 1 player in 3 years. No new Muller, no new Bastian Schweisteiger. Why? Because players like that are super rare, and it's more about that sort of talent being there in the first place, rather than it is about a manager promoting it.

Schweinsteiger, Muller, Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, this kind of talent finds it's way to the surface no matter the manager. You have to be really really dumb to have on your hands a young talent of that caliber and block it. Lucho doesn't have it though. Whatever good talent he has, he is treating it the right way, all you have to see is Roberto's case, who, even though he is not an exceptional talent, he was still trusted by Lucho and is now performing great. But the whole discussion is useless anyway, since we're comparing Barca's diamond generation with the actual not-that-impressive one. It's lunacy to expect to deliver the same players without the raw talent and skill being there to build on. Each generation is different, and Barca's current generation does not allow you to form a Masia based team without major decline. The past one did allow this to hapen and all it needed was the right coach to take that approach. Pep was the right coach at the right time. Lucho is still the right coach, but not at the best time for promoting players. He does what he can under the circumstances. Pep also does that. If the situation doesn't let you promote young players, you can't do it. Pep's stunt at Bayern is key in proving this.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
Guys.... What he does at City and Bayern is irrelevant really. His love for players from the Cantera is not exactly his love for the system of developing our own players per se or his ability to nurture and develop youngsters either. Just so happens that the Barca has been following a certain kind of football tactics throughout different stages of the club, from La Masia to the reserves to the first team and it happens to be the one that Pep knows the best. So there's a reason why he could get the best out of average players like Pedro. It is not because he developed the system to get the best out of these average players. It is exactly the opposite. He could use them the best because the players have been trained to play like that from their earlier days!

Lucho, on the other hand, is not able to use that system now. He brought in a flavor of his own to the tiki taka style of play that Barca has been all about for quite a while. In fact he saw how it has sort of become obsolete with managers' learning it through and coming up with different strategies to counter it! So it is not exactly fair for us to expect him to use the same youngsters who had been taught to play a whole different way throughout their life, and also keep winning at the same time!!

The only two b team players Pep took to starters in first team were Busi and Pedro.

Neither were la masia products for any real length of time or rated within club before Pep.

Pep being coach for that one year changed their careers.

It is cop out to give him credit for that and then say doesn't trust others as much as not la masia.
 

FCBarca

Mike the Knife
Dos Santos left in 2008 when Pep took over did he not?

Did he ever play for Pep or was he sold before Pep even started coaching with the 1st team?

For those that were actually around back then, Dos Santos was angling for a move away with Zahavi making noise in the press throughout the 07-08 season. It was a tiresome season for many reasons, not the least of which was Dos Santos being touted as the next Ronaldinho and demanding pay raise. Most were happy to see him gone at the time.


There was a buy back and Crosas also left in 2008.

Nice try, never played for Pep



So loans and selling players with buy backs do have their place. Glad that's been agreed and your 'anti la masia' slant on it has been dropped.

Nice try to extrapolate one loan of a player that never played under Pep when he brought in more youth than any other coach in Barcelona history. Agenda noted already. No facts, just spin.

La Masia erosion continues, nothing has changed in that regard except the drivel revisionists like yourself spew out


Romeu wasn't loaned so check your facts.

Botia was loaned in s position not stacked.

Romeu's loan/sale is structured similar to that of Deulofeu's

Only in your world is 4 veteran central defenders and 3 cantera players considered not stacked when Botia was sent on a loan, with buyback
 

Aryagorn

Improvin' Perfection!!
The discussion was about promoting youth. Not about young players from Europe. In fact, signing young players instead of promoting young players has been treated as a negative here. If we talk about young players, what about Germany's biggest talent in Gotze, who, after 3 season under Pep has massively regressed? Who did Pep promote into the first team, first 11, or close to first 11? Maybe Kimmick. 1 player in 3 years. No new Muller, no new Bastian Schweisteiger. Why? Because players like that are rare, and it's more about that sort of talent being there, than it is about a manager promoting it.
Exactly...... He could not make the best out of Goetze the golden boy of Germany but we some how want to credit him for making Pedro, an average Joe, a world beater!

Point is..... There's not much difference between Lucho and Pep. For every Busi and Pedro of Pep, Lucho has a Roberto and a Rafinha. In fact, he made a RB out of someone who has been a mid fielder thoughout his life! Pep does not exactly love to nurture and develop youngsters, or consider it the most important thing to do, like the popular belief here!!

Any manager would want to get results first!

And for all the credit given to Pep, for the resurgence of Xavi and Iniesta into the best mid field partnership ever...... They won the Euro BEFORE Pep took over and Xavi actually won the UEFA Euro 2008 Player of the Tournament!
 
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jamrock

Senior Member
The discussion was about promoting youth. Not about young players from Europe. In fact, signing young players instead of promoting young players has been treated as a negative here. If we talk about young players, what about Germany's biggest talent in Gotze, who, after 3 season under Pep has massively regressed? Who did Pep promote into the first team, first 11, or close to first 11? Maybe Kimmick. 1 player in 3 years. No new Muller, no new Bastian Schweisteiger. Why? Because players like that are rare, and it's more about that sort of talent being there, than it is about a manager promoting it.

Nope I've always used the word developed, you and jamdav, kept talking about promoting, every single player in the history of football and turning them into the next Pele.

I have said, pep is interested in developing young players

2) he will give a young player a chance to prove themselves in real games, if the sink or swim, we will see, but he will give them that chance.

Only the ones trying to discredit pep keep talking about promoting and keeping every single player,that has ever played for barca and turning them into the next puskas, failure to do this, means he wasn't interested in DEVELOPING YOUNG PLAYERS.

Like he has tried to do at the two clubs he has managed so far.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Did he ever play for Pep or was he sold before Pep even started coaching with the 1st team?

For those that were actually around back then, Dos Santos was angling for a move away with Zahavi making noise in the press throughout the 07-08 season. It was a tiresome season for many reasons, not the least of which was Dos Santos being touted as the next Ronaldinho and demanding pay raise. Most were happy to see him gone at the time.




Nice try, never played for Pep





Nice try to extrapolate one loan of a player that never played under Pep when he brought in more youth than any other coach in Barcelona history. Agenda noted already. No facts, just spin.

La Masia erosion continues, nothing has changed in that regard except the drivel revisionists like yourself spew out




Romeu's loan/sale is structured similar to that of Deulofeu's

Only in your world is 4 veteran central defenders and 3 cantera players considered not stacked when Botia was sent on a loan, with buyback

Never claimed Dos Santos played for Pep.

I said he left in Peps first summer and I would bet anything Pep had a say on him leaving.

Did Ronaldinho or Deco ever play under Pep? No but he had his say on them.

Again I never said Crosas played in first team for Pep. Check your facts though he played under in b team and played pre season games in summer 2008 under Pep.

Romeu wasn't a loan. Check your facts.

Who are those four veterans CBs and three canters ahead of Botia?

There was huge calls at time for Pep to bring him back and give a chance. Why?

Those of us that were there remember these things.
 

jamrock

Senior Member
Pep is interested in giving young players chances and developing there talents

Roberto
Rafa
Bartra
Two players he gave there shot at first team football left before he could develop them.

Pedro
Busquets
Coman
Thiago
Kimmick

All players he helped to develop, where would busquets be without pep odds are not where he is not, he turn Pedro into something special and now look where Pedro is without him.

Plus there are many other players he gave the chance , but they proved not to be good enough, doesn't take away the fact that he gave them the chance.

Tello
Cuenca

Come to mind.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Nope I've always used the word developed, you and jamdav, kept talking about promoting, every single player in the history of football and turning them into the next Pele.

I have said, pep is interested in developing young players

2) he will give a young player a chance to prove themselves in real games, if the sink or swim, we will see, but he will give them that chance.

Only the ones trying to discredit pep keep talking about promoting and keeping every single player,that has ever played for barca and turning them into the next puskas, failure to do this, means he wasn't interested in DEVELOPING YOUNG PLAYERS.

Like he has tried to do at the two clubs he has managed so far.

You keep trying this same lame position of this being an anti Pep argument.

When it is no that at all and is using Pep who did give young players a chance and comparing that to Lucho.

When that is done it is nowhere near as one sided as you make out.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Pep is interested in giving young players chances and developing there talents

Roberto
Rafa
Bartra
Two players he gave there shot at first team football left before he could develop them.

Pedro
Busquets
Coman
Thiago
Kimmick

All players he helped to develop, where would busquets be without pep odds are not where he is not, he turn Pedro into something special and now look where Pedro is without him.

Plus there are many other players he gave the chance , but they proved not to be good enough, doesn't take away the fact that he gave them the chance.

Tello
Cuenca
Come to mind.

Luch has given more chances to likes of Munir than Pep did to likes of Barta and Roberto.

Pep had ample chance to use both those players more and never did it. Why was that?
 

serghei

Senior Member
I have said, pep is interested in developing young players

2) he will give a young player a chance to prove themselves in real games, if the sink or swim, we will see, but he will give them that chance.

OK. Lucho has developed Neymar into top 3 players in the world and Champions League joint top scorer. Won a treble with Neymar playing amazing and being best LW in the world. And Lucho is now developing Umtiti, Denis, Andre Gomes, Paco Alcacer, Sergi Roberto. What's the problem then? Didn't we sign a lot of 22 years old, that means he wants to develop young players as well.
 
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jamrock

Senior Member
OK. Lucho has developed Neymar into top 3 players in the world and Champions League joint top scorer. And Lucho is now developing Umtiti, Denis, Andre Gomes, Paco Alcacer, Sergi Roberto. What's the problem then?


Lol okay then.
 

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