Malcom

[serghei]

I'll start with this one.
I just don't get a mindset of some of you where you are always mentioning extreme examples and mistakes like De Bruyne and Salah.
There is always a story about a kid who played instruments in his basement, some manager discovered him and a kid earned millions.
And then some kids, watching that movie or reading that story will think: omg! I will try to do the same.
What the movies or a story usually don't tell is: there are 1000s or millions of other kids in their garage who have done exactly the same and never got famous due to 100s of reasons (they suck, they were unlucky, a manager didn't hear them).

Or when young 20 years old girls from all over the USA come to Los Angeles and hope that they will turn into movie stars.
3-4 of them will make it, other 100 000 will be forced to work as waitresses, or they will need to sleep with 10s of guys to appear for 20 seconds in some 800 dollars budget film, or they will end on drugs or in porn.

So, yes, of course, there is always THAT ONE guy, THAT ONE girl, but you need to take other numbers into the account.
I mean, you are mentioning how Roma made a mistake with Salah.
But you aren't mentioning how they bought 50 players in the last 3-4 seasons and probably made 48 mistakes.
So, in one moment, they hit the gem with Salah and ruined their chance.
And then they made 50 mistakes after Salah, trying to replicate it and find a new Salah.
And then, someone like you will in all future cases mention: but a guy XX could be the next Salah.
While the reality is that even in Roma's case, they have hit 1 Salah and 49 failures after that.
And for each of those 49 new failures, guys who were buying him thought: but maybe he will turn out to be a gem the same as Salah.
But none of them were.

So, there is nothing wrong with being optimistic.
But you also need to know the realistic odds.

So, yes. Malcom could be the same mistake as Salah or De Bruyne.
But chances for that (on a larger sample) are 1%, more or less.
So, imo, it is quite fair to say, if Barca is not playing Malcom:
1. there is 1% chance that he is the next Salah and that we are doing the same mistake
2. there is 9% chance that he is a good player, but EV hates him
3. there is 90% of chances that he is just not good enough for Barca

About the other part of a post, I want to buy superstars, but I have nothing against "lotteries" with kids like Malcom.
If I were in charge of Barca, I would also buy some Coutinhos and some Malcoms.
But, UNLIKE you, I would treat these kids as attempts and lotteries.
So, I would BUY them knowing that a chance that he will make it are like 10-20% at best.
And then, on training grounds and in some matches, we will make a fast assessment of his skills.
If he is worth more chances, he will get it.
If we assess that he is not worth it, no biggie. He will not play and we will buy 2-3 new kids in the next season.

And THIS is the problem. I have a feeling that a board and a coach are doing the same.
Malcom is a low risk gamble.
If he'll make it=awesome, we have hit a gem.
If he'll fail=we can always resell him for 25M, no biggie. We have lost only 15M and it was worth a shot.

Imo, majority of youa re too emotional and too attached to every single player.
While the board and a coach are handling that in a way colder, objective and a multi-billion-dollar-company way.

Like:
1. we will buy 2 kids for 30-40M
2. we will give them some chances and asses them on training grounds
a) if they seem to be very bad for our team, we won't give them ANY chances or only a few matches (Keirrison, Malcom, Deulofeu)
b) if they are 50:50, we will give them some more chances to prove their worth (Denis, Munir)
c) if they have a very high potential, we will give them a lot of time, even if they'll suck (Dembele, and probably Gomes in their eyes)

A club and the board have their own way of working and assessing players.
Both Malcoms and Bteam guys like Samper, Alena, Miranda, Puig etc.

For majority of you, we are going through the same cycle over and over every single time:
1. why is a young player not playing?
2. why is he not given a run of matches?
3. he can't be worse than (insert a random 30 year old from our team)
4. a coach is an idiot and is not thinking long term

While, on the other hand, if you'll adopt my approach:
1. all players are assessed by 100s of coaches and scouts
2. and based on their assessed potential, on their training grounds performances, based on how they played in matches, and based on HOW MANY players we already have in A-team on their position
= they will be given 2-3, 10 or 50 chances.

Or, simpler, go back to my coin theory.
The staff thought that Dembele has a high potential from the start, and he earned 20 coins from the day 1.
So, he can play like a crap in 19 matches and he will still have coins left.

Malcom, was probably assessed as a weaker potential.
He has earned only 8 coins when he came here.
He has Dembele infront of him in a pecking order.
He played meh in all matches.
And his coins have run out for now.
Maybe he will get an additional 2-3 coins as a Christmas gift, and then if he won't improve in matches, this is more or less it for him.

In short, in my eyes:
Some players will get 3 coins (chances), some will get 10 coins, some will get 20 coins, based on their potential in staff's eyes and based on their performances on training grounds and in matches.

While in the eyes of majority of you guys is:
= every player deserves 20-30 coins until we can properly assess his real worth.

Well, yes, if we give a smaller amount of chances, we will make a mistake here and there.
But that option is still better than giving 20 coins/chances to everyone (Dembele, Malcom, Samper, Alena, Puig, Oriol, Miranda, Munir, Denis, insert 5 new kids from the Bteam in the next season, insert 2-3 new Malcoms whom we'll buy in the next season etc).
We don't have an unlimited time to test everyone.
Some will get 3 coins, some will get 10 coins, some will get 20.
And that's it.
Use your coins wisely or your Barca's time is finished.

All in all, for this or that reason, EV and our staff decided that for example Malcom, Samper, Miranda aren't worth too many coins/chances in this moment.



I have just talked about his, lol.
Sorry for offending anyone, but you guys are way too romantic and totally out of real world in some views.
Salah this, Salah that.

Lol, he is 1 out of 100/1000.
Are you willing to test 100 kids in 20 matches to get one Salah?

Or would you rather just buy 1 Salah for 150 Millions and not lose 20 matches (and 200-300-500-1000 millions) for EACH of 100 kids (2000 spots in matches) to find one Salah?
Lol.

This is so painful, sorry.

You are something else.

Barcelona doesn't sign young players who have a 1/1000 chances to make it. We're not Huesca ffs. So, according yo you, there is a 1 in 1000 chance for a 40m. talent who was one of the best young players in France to make it? That's just poor logic. Most talents of Malcom's level that originated from Ligue 1 became top players.

Fucking lol. That's absurd, but you're swimming in absurdity in every post you make about young players almost.

Nobody is saying to play crap young players who show no promise. Did you see anyone blaming managers for not giving chances to Gumbau for example? Lol. We blamed Lucho for playing him as he was clearly not up for it. There is already a selection being made inside the team about which players need chances and which players are probably not good enough to even get those chances.

Alena is a player for example that has risen at the top from the youth ranks. Of course you give a player like this chances. And is absolutely embarassing that a football fan sees this a 1 in 1000 shot. What are you doing supporting Barcelona if you think the young players Barcelona raise at La Masia or the ones they buy for a lot of money are a 1 in 1000 case and we shouldn't give them chances.

You piss on every young player almost with your by the numbers approach. To this day I haven't heard you saying something positive about a young player that is not an absolute star. Something like 'we need to get this 19 year old because he is going to be a superb player'.

Can't beleive I'm reading on Barca forum that a Barcelona talent or La Masia great prospect has 1% chances of making it to a level of Salah, a player nobody rated 1.5 years ago until Klopp made him into a star.

With your approach, sometimes you are right in that a player you say will fail will indeed fail. Problem is you say about all young players (give or take) that they will fail.

 

[BBZ8800]

jesus this talk about his performances in trainings sounds like we bought some sunday league player and not very talented one who is part of brazilian national teams...rubbish

What does this even mean?
Do you know that every NT team has 5-6 attackers.
3-4 of them will play, the 6th choice guy will never play.

That 6th guy is an NT player.
He is a good player.
But not as good enough as the first 3-4 picks.

Would you as a coach give chances to a 6th pick guy if you know that first 3-4 picks are better?

I am not even saying that Malcom is not good player or not an NT level.
You can be an NT level and world class level and still the 5th or 6th choice at Barca and thus not good enough for our level.

You are something else.

Barcelona doesn't sign young players who have a 1/1000 chances to make it. We're not Huesca ffs. So, according yo you, there is a 1 in 1000 chance for a 40m. talent who is one of the best young players in France to make it?

Fucking lol. That's absurd, but you're swimming in absurdity in every post you make about young players almost.

1 out of 100 to be the next Salah.
For Malcom or any young guy to make it at Barca, chances are around 10-20%, based on our history and a history of other big clubs with signing foreign young talents.

But even then, every of those guys who on paper have 10-20% chances will be assessed separately.

Today, there are 20-30-50 young kids out there with high potentials.
Our scouts assess:
= these 5 have the highest chances
= these 10 have lower chances
= these 20 are a huge gamble

Then out of top 5 talents, they will check the prices.
They will decide: we are ready to gamble only with 10M for this guy, or with 30M for this guy.
If a guy costs 80M, scouts will say: too huge gamble.

So, each player is assessed separately, and we are willing to invest different sums in each player, based on how much we believe in him.
And even then, when we buy some of them, some will get 5 or 20 chances.
Based on how much faith we have in them, based on how do they look on training grounds when we see them closely and how they play in matches.

Again, I have a feeling that for you and other guys here, it is:
Alena=he deserves 20+ chances
Puig=he deserves 20+ chances
Oriol=the same
Malcom=the same

For you, each guy deserves the highest amount of chances.

That's crazy imo, sorry.

Exactly, otherwise we would be in similar position as AC Milan of today.

There is the other side of a coin: called Arsenal.
A club who is always in search for: guys who are young and have potential.
And who are giving WAY TOO MANY CHANCES to all young players.

They are the least successful big club in England in the last 15 years.

 

[Donatello]

I get it, you want the superstars and the old players, but the reality doesnt work that way. We cant afford it. Thats why we bought Arthur. Thats why Malcom was bought. Thats why 95% of the players Real Madrid sign are young players.

Exactly, otherwise we would be in similar position as AC Milan of today.

And, Our financials are already fcked up under Barto, our wages are off the roof and we seriously need to scale down a bit in terms of wages and transfer expenses. And our stadium plan is on hold for indefinite time as well .

 

[serghei]

Lol, a 1 in 100 chance to be the next Salah. Salah is not even that great of a player dude. I like how every young player is the same for you. It's like you apply some sort of weird mathematical formulas that say that, no matter how good a talent is, he has the same chance to make it as every other random young player. Which is hilariously not true because every player is different.

Human fields like sports and mathematics don't mix well. Your posts show this very well. The chances for a young player to make it depend more on him and the people he interacts with, than whatever shitty numbers and stats you provide [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION].

 

[messi15478]

BBZ8800 CRAZY how long your textes are always, but nice to read

 

[Cule4life]

As I have said, every coach (and fan) will make 4 good calls and 1 mistake.

This is a perfect summary of BBZ's posts- Random "stats" pulled out of his ass to to push his agenda.

The irony of comparing Malcom with Salah, when Salah was exactly in the same position at Malcom's age the only difference being that he got to Roma where he really was trusted.

Irony doesn't exist in BBZ's dictionary

 

[Sorin]

This is a perfect summary of BBZ's posts- Random "stats" pulled out of his ass to to push his agenda.



Irony doesn't exist in BBZ's dictionary

Why is anyone replaying to such non-sense is beyond me. You won't gain anything of worth by reading his posts. In fact you might lose brain cells.

 

[xXKonan]

You would always want a well-balanced squad of Veterans and young players.

Not a fan of we stacking the deck full of established veterans in the squad while pushing out the young players. In the short term, it could work but you will end up being stuck with an aging squad with little resell value on high wages.

It baffles me that anyone would even want that. It's about as bad as having a Midfield full of nothing but Workhorses and having that mindset that we can win the CL with it.

 

[George_Costanza]

You would always want a well-balanced squad of Veterans and young players.

Not a fan of we stacking the deck full of established veterans in the squad while pushing out the young players. In the short term, it could work but you will end up being stuck with an aging squad with little resell value on high wages.

It baffles me that anyone would even want that. It's about as bad as having a Midfield full of nothing but Workhorses and having that mindset that we can win the CL with it.

When the manager lacks technical and tactical skills he compensates by playing it safe with senior more experienced players. Use a 4-4-2 system which allows more midfielders to handle defending. It's the easiest and safest formation, but implementing such formation will always exclude wingers like Dembele and Malcom. The sporting department bought them specifically for EV to have the flexibility to use different systems such as the 4-3-3 system, He couldn't implement the system last season because Dembele was injured most of the season and no Malcom.

EV tried the 4-3-3 and failed even though we have the best players for such a system. He opted to take the safest route now.

 

[Alik]

Nobody is saying that Malcom is a sure thing. Or that he deserves to start 20 matches.

However, unless he has an attitude problem, there's no way he can be showing in training that he's not good enough for more than 25 minutes in Barça.

 

[DonAK]

You don't need to have a #9 at your bench if that guy is Munir. Having Munir as your striker or Suarez' backup is as good as having no one.

I think it's a lot more plausible that Valverde is going to be here until the season ends and want no part in Malcom when he was brought in at the expense of the player he requested. He knows he won't be here for another season and simply doesn't really care unless he absolutely has to play him due to injuries and suspensions.

 

[jairzinho]

When the manager lacks technical and tactical skills he compensates by playing it safe with senior more experienced players. Use a 4-4-2 system which allows more midfielders to handle defending. It's the easiest and safest formation, but implementing such formation will always exclude wingers like Dembele and Malcom. The sporting department bought them specifically for EV to have the flexibility to use different systems such as the 4-3-3 system, He couldn't implement the system last season because Dembele was injured most of the season and no Malcom.

EV tried the 4-3-3 and failed even though we have the best players for such a system. He opted to take the safest route now.

That’s basically Ernie in a nutshell. He isn’t bold, daring, revolutionary or cunning. Maybe Klopp or Pep, Sarri maybe but not Ernesto. He sees everything in black and white. Someone mentioned about Munir being in the bench because he’s the only backup CF available. No thought about whether he can hold up the ball, run into space, drag defenders out of position opening up spaces for others, finishing. I’ve not seen that from him so far. But let’s still put him there becaaue there’s no other backup CF.

Another coach might see a guy like Malcom for example, with unique skill sets that can offer options in multiple attacking positions. That’s how the great thinkers of the game came up with ideas like the false 9 etc. out of the box and bold stuff. Coaches like Ernie are very rigid, conventional and mechanical. No ingenuity or cleverness with his methods.

 

[Joan]

You don't need to have a #9 at your bench if that guy is Munir. Having Munir as your striker or Suarez' backup is as good as having no one.

I think it's a lot more plausible that Valverde is going to be here until the season ends and want no part in Malcom when he was brought in at the expense of the player he requested. He knows he won't be here for another season and simply doesn't really care unless he absolutely has to play him due to injuries and suspensions.

You seem pretty certain he won't be here next season. Don't think so tbf. I don't see him leaving and I don't see the board pushing him out (unless a terribly poor season).

 

[KingLeo10]

according to BBZ, willian is suddenly a proven world class player for having 2 good games versus a dire barcelona with paulinho as MF option.

guy will twist anything to suit his agenda.

 

[henias]

This continued rigidity and lack of player development will eventually backfire, especially in the late season where there are important CL stages. While things may seem smooth sailing now with a few victories in home matches, these problems will show up after a cumulative period of time.

If the solution is to always keep needing to buy new players with so many unused players at your disposal, then such finiancial model will eventually crumble as well and wouldnt last. And worse, buying new players that continues to be unused. A vicious cycle.

A coach like EV would cause the club to go backwards instead. Such short term mentality will only last so long. Best option is for him to leave this season. He's done as a temporary coach. I would want a more permanent long vision coach.