Marc Bartra

[Kohe321]

We are Barca.
In 80% of matches, our main concern is how to score Goals and break the defense and NOT how to have even stronger defense.

We are losing more points (and titles) with 0:0 draws against poor teams (where we couldn't score) than in matches when we lose 0:3 or 2:3 and where we needed a better defense.

So, with a more defensive minded RB after Alves, we will probably be overally weaker than today in terms of points over the whole Season.
In our team, a RB probably attacks and links up with attackers 75% of time, and defends 25% of time.

So, if Bartra is a better defender than Alves, that doesn't mean too much in 80% of matches where we control the game, attack all the time, and need to score 1-2-3 Goals.

Bartra on one flank, and a headless chicken Alba on the other side, doesn't sound like a too good recipe for winning more points than Real in La Liga.
That could be a good recipe in big matches.
But not against teams like Celta or Malaga at Camp nou, or against Elche, Granada and similar team in away games.

It's worth a shot though, I'm certainly not sure that Bartra would be a much worse offensive choice than Alves. He could do nice linkups and do a good job for all we know, he's shown he has the capacity of being dangerous going forward as well. His defensive skills are a nice bonus.

 

[BBZ8800]

It's worth a shot though, I'm certainly not sure that Bartra would be a much worse offensive choice than Alves. He could do nice linkups and do a good job for all we know, he's shown he has the capacity of being dangerous going forward as well. His defensive skills are a nice bonus.

Whenever Rafinha plays instead of Rakitic, we are always weakened on the right side, because something is missing in Messi-Rakitic-Alves trio, and Messi is just surrounded with more players, because Rafinha doesn't drive the player away as well as Rakitic.

The same is when Montoya plays.

Or, the "opposite" is when SUAREZ plays, the opponents are scared and he is doing an amazing work and creates more spaces for Messi.

With Bartra on a RB, no one would attack him, and 3-4 players would be on Messi.
Him and Montoya are doing the opposite of what is Suarez doing in attack.

Opponents need to be scared of our players, and our players like Rakitic or Suarez need to create more space for Messi.
Opponents are not too afraid of Montoya, Bartra and similar players.
They don't link up that well, they are not as technically gifted as Alves, plus, the opponents are not scared of them.

People will reply: Bartra can learn that.
Well, he can't. He can learn how to be a decent RB.
But he can't learn how to be a world class RB, like Alves in his prime, who was one of our main strengths.

So, I would much rather buy an attacking RB.

 

[Zangash]

We are Barca.
In 80% of matches, our main concern is how to score Goals and break the defense and NOT how to have even stronger defense.

We are losing more points (and titles) with 0:0 draws against poor teams (where we couldn't score) than in matches when we lose 0:3 or 2:3 and where we needed a better defense.

So, with a more defensive minded RB after Alves, we will probably be overally weaker than today in terms of points over the whole Season.
In our team, a RB probably attacks and links up with attackers 75% of time, and defends 25% of time.

So, if Bartra is a better defender than Alves, that doesn't mean too much in 80% of matches where we control the game, attack all the time, and need to score 1-2-3 Goals.

Bartra on one flank, and a headless chicken Alba on the other side, doesn't sound like a too good recipe for winning more points than Real in La Liga.
That could be a good recipe in big matches.
But not against teams like Celta or Malaga at Camp nou, or against Elche, Granada and similar team in away games.

Three of our losses came by scorelines of 1-0. Celta and Malaga at home, and La Real at the Anoeta. Two losses were direct results of having poor defensive fullbacks, and even if we'd have tied these three games 0:0 we'd be just one point away from 1st place.

And seriously speaking, Alves brings nothing to the team offensively, at this point. He did for the month of January and half of February, but after that his offensive effort has been just good enough to ruin any offensive opportunities that come his way, when Messi isn't around to take his pass. Replacing Alves with a defensive fullback would not weaken us offensively because Alves doesn't actually help us on offense. In all of our 0:0 draws how often has Alves' contribution actually been of any use to us whatsoever? How about in the 1:0 losses where he makes major mistakes and costs us the game (Malaga)? Where is that offensive contribution that can help us score the 1, 2, or 3 goals we need? The way people talk about Alves you'd think he is a driving force in our attack and the truth is he really is not.

If it is so vital we use attackers on the wings like Alves we should use a 3 man back line, with Pedro on the right and Alba on the left. We have only used that tactic once and it worked quite well, in a big game, no less.

 

[yahudi]

Kinda funny how the same people blast Montoya for being poor at going forward yet suggest moving Bartra to RB

 

[DinhoR10]

Kinda funny how the same people blast Montoya for being poor at going forward yet suggest moving Bartra to RB

Sad to say but doesn't Bartra have more assists? Even as a cb.

 

[Zangash]

Sad to say but doesn't Bartra have more assists? Even as a cb.

He also has more goals with Barca than Mascherano. One of them is even against Real Madrid

It doesn't really matter at all, but still kind of amusing.

 

[Barcaman]

Btw.

Bartra 1.449 minutes played - 3 assists (playing as CB!)
Alves 2.458 Minutes player - 4 assists

So much for losing the attacking component.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Sad to say but doesn't Bartra have more assists? Even as a cb.

Montoya has 2 assists in 7 games while bartra has 3 in 19 . so Montoya actually has better assist rate .and Alves just 4 in 29 ,Montoya must be better in attacking than Alves
last year Montoya had 6 assist in 19 games ,Bartra 1 in 30 games while Alves 6 in 42
Bartra glimpses of offensive skills as a CB doesn't mean he better than Montoya as an attacking RB ,nor as a defensive RB either .he lacks ideal quickness and acceleration and would be tortured in a high line defense if he is a fullback

So, I would much rather buy an attacking RB.

tbf ,I think all of this suggestions is until we can buy a new RB in 2016

 

[DinhoR10]

Montoya has 2 assists in 7 games while bartra has 3 in 19 . so Montoya actually has better assist rate .and Alves just 4 in 29 ,Montoya must be better in attacking than Alves
last year Montoya had 6 assist in 19 games ,Bartra 1 in 30 games while Alves 6 in 42
Bartra glimpses of offensive skills as a CB doesn't mean he better than Montoya as an attacking RB ,nor as a defensive RB either .he lacks ideal quickness and acceleration and would be tortured in a high line defense if he is a fullback



tbf ,I think all of this suggestions is until we can buy a new RB in 2016

Bartra probably wouldn't work in a 4-3-3 but if Pedro was on the RW he could be a great RCB, with the way Alves plays him/Pique basicaly play that role already anyway.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Three of our losses came by scorelines of 1-0. Celta and Malaga at home, and La Real at the Anoeta. Two losses were direct results of having poor defensive fullbacks, and even if we'd have tied these three games 0:0 we'd be just one point away from 1st place.

And seriously speaking, Alves brings nothing to the team offensively, at this point. He did for the month of January and half of February, but after that his offensive effort has been just good enough to ruin any offensive opportunities that come his way, when Messi isn't around to take his pass. Replacing Alves with a defensive fullback would not weaken us offensively because Alves doesn't actually help us on offense. In all of our 0:0 draws how often has Alves' contribution actually been of any use to us whatsoever? How about in the 1:0 losses where he makes major mistakes and costs us the game (Malaga)? Where is that offensive contribution that can help us score the 1, 2, or 3 goals we need? The way people talk about Alves you'd think he is a driving force in our attack and the truth is he really is not.

If it is so vital we use attackers on the wings like Alves we should use a 3 man back line, with Pedro on the right and Alba on the left. We have only used that tactic once and it worked quite well, in a big game, no less.

BBZ8800 is right. I'd worry more about us not scoring than letting goals in.. We've always conceded.. But we've always out scored opponents. Us not being able to score is more of a problem than letting in one goal.

 

[Alik]

I also don't think Bartra would do well at RB.

 

[DrPepper]

Chelsea play with Ivanovic as RB and he's even doing a good job offensively.

Still, Bartra as RB should not be a permanent solution. He'll offer little linkup with Messi. He might have similar assist numbers to Alves but it's not always about the final pass or end product.

 

[yahudi]

Chelsea play with Ivanovic as RB and he's even doing a good job offensively.

...and it only took him three years of playing there to improve his offensive contribution

 

[BBZ8800]

Btw.

Bartra 1.449 minutes played - 3 assists (playing as CB!)
Alves 2.458 Minutes player - 4 assists

So much for losing the attacking component.

You can't simplify things in that way.

In that way, Bartra is better in creating chances and Goals than Iniesta, right?
Because Bartra has 1-2 assists this Season, and Iniesta has zero, if I am not mistaken, right?

So, with that logic, when Iniesta is injured or plays poorly, we could say: "No need to buy a new AMC, we have Bartra. He made more assists this Season that Iniesta"

He has more assists, but what about 100 little things which AMC (Iniesta) does during the match?
Again, it doesn't work that way.

About Alves vs Bartra on RB, yes, Bartra made some assists because no one was covering him, as a CB.
But as a RB, you need a high work rate, good work on and off the ball, good positional play, smart decisions, whenever we have the possession.
I know that Bartra is a favorite young player of this forum, but seriously, even his fans, can you imagine him working for 90 minutes in Alves' way, driving away opponents, looking for spaces, creating spaces for Messi, dribbling past opponents, playing one-two's inside of a box etc?

If some fans seriously think that Bartra can do that, then I don't know what to add further to that.
If Bartra would play as a RB, I could see him more like Oleguer.
He was good in defense, but he was by far our weakest link, who did virtually nothing in attack.

Ok, someone will reply now that we won a CL with Oleguer on RB, but it worked only against Chelsea and Milan and similar teams where we played cautiously.
Whenever we needed to attack, we played with 10 players (because Oleguer was very poor).
Also, in attack, we played much better with a "normal" RB, like Belletti.

In the end, I will repeat and explain one more time:
-- If Alves links up and has 20-30 good passes per average match, then there is no way (no matter how poor Alves is sometimes), that Bartra will come close to him
-- I would expect from Bartra as a RB, just a bunch of Douglas-esque or Oleguer-esque safe passes

Realistically, probably even Montoya and Douglas would be much better options considering all skills which a RB needs.

 

[Zangash]

You can't simplify things in that way.

In that way, Bartra is better in creating chances and Goals than Iniesta, right?
Because Bartra has 1-2 assists this Season, and Iniesta has zero, if I am not mistaken, right?

So, with that logic, when Iniesta is injured or plays poorly, we could say: "No need to buy a new AMC, we have Bartra. He made more assists this Season that Iniesta"

He has more assists, but what about 100 little things which AMC (Iniesta) does during the match?
Again, it doesn't work that way.

About Alves vs Bartra on RB, yes, Bartra made some assists because no one was covering him, as a CB.
But as a RB, you need a high work rate, good work on and off the ball, good positional play, smart decisions, whenever we have the possession.
I know that Bartra is a favorite young player of this forum, but seriously, even his fans, can you imagine him working for 90 minutes in Alves' way, driving away opponents, looking for spaces, creating spaces for Messi, dribbling past opponents, playing one-two's inside of a box etc?

If some fans seriously think that Bartra can do that, then I don't know what to add further to that.
If Bartra would play as a RB, I could see him more like Oleguer.
He was good in defense, but he was by far our weakest link, who did virtually nothing in attack.

Ok, someone will reply now that we won a CL with Oleguer on RB, but it worked only against Chelsea and Milan and similar teams where we played cautiously.
Whenever we needed to attack, we played with 10 players (because Oleguer was very poor).
Also, in attack, we played much better with a "normal" RB, like Belletti.

In the end, I will repeat and explain one more time:
-- If Alves links up and has 20-30 good passes per average match, then there is no way (no matter how poor Alves is sometimes), that Bartra will come close to him
-- I would expect from Bartra as a RB, just a bunch of Douglas-esque or Oleguer-esque safe passes

Realistically, probably even Montoya and Douglas would be much better options considering all skills which a RB needs.

Douglas isn't a better option than anyone at anything. What an absurd thing to say. The guy can't even come to grips on where to kick the ball when faced with 3rd division opposition (Across the goal! Kick the ball across the goal now!).

Keep in mind, all these suggestions are for the 6 months until we can sign a replacement, who will probably be Danilo, by the way things are looking. Until then Bartra and Montoya will be fine, considering in that time between the start of the season and the end of our transfer ban will only see us play two or three big games, compared to when every last game is crucial to our season as it is now.