Mario Gotze

[JamDav1982]

I'm trying to argue as fairly as possible yet you just get mad. Once again I'm not even using Gotze playing for Germany as an argument. At all. Just completely forget about international matches for Gotze. We'll just imagine that Gotze has never even been capped so that you don't get upset.

I'm talking about the fact that Neymar has not done a lot of things. You summed up EXACTLY what I'm saying. We have no idea who is the better player because they haven't had the same challenges!

Its not that Neymar has failed to match Gotze on your criteria it is that he has not had the chance.

Dont even know why you bother to compare them if there is nothing you are prepared to take into account for Neymar.

 

[Alik]

Also the same CL knockouts where he was very, very good against Real Madrid before he got injured.

A CL knockout vs Shaktar, Malaga, Madrid for you trumps a cup final vs Spain, a cup final vs Atletico and a derby against Madrid.

I don't understand why you would undermine Neymar's games to prove your point.

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

What has Gotze proven in the CL exaclty? One good campaign?

As with the other guy if all you use is the CL and european leagues to judge the player then you cant have any real opinion as one player has no t had that chance yet.

To compare them you have to take into account Neymars other achievements and performances other wise you CANNOT compare them.

Remember that Pep tried to get Neymar before he moved for Gotze.

The bolded statement is quite literally the exact point that Crews and I have been trying to make for the past few pages....

Is it not unfair to Gotze to say Neymar is better because he had a good confederations cup when Gotze didn't even play in that cup and did not even start featuring somewhat regularly for Germany until like a year ago?

 

[JamDav1982]

A CL knockout vs Shaktar, Malaga, Madrid for you trumps a cup final vs Spain, a cup final vs Atletico and a derby against Madrid.

I don't understand why you would undermine Neymar's games to prove your point.

They very nearly went out to Malaga as Gotze missed chance after chance and only the officials took them through in the end.

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

I'm just going to flat out say this to avoid further confusion.

I DO NOT THINK GOTZE IS BETTER THAN NEYMAR. I think that they're still young and have much to prove but Neymar hasn't even had a chance to play at the highest level other than one single Classico. This is why I'm saying...let's wait until the CL knockouts to see how we judge them then.

 

[JamDav1982]

The bolded statement is quite literally the exact point that Crews and I have been trying to make for the past few pages....

Is it not unfair to Gotze to say Neymar is better because he had a good confederations cup when Gotze didn't even play in that cup and did not even start featuring somewhat regularly for Germany until like a year ago?

Its maybe unfair to say Neymar is the better player using YOUR criteria yes.

Others are not using that however.

A couple comments back you were using intl competition then is seemed to get disregarded when Neymar has shown more.

 

[Cule4life]

This thread

 

[Alik]

Is it not unfair to Gotze to say Neymar is better because he had a good confederations cup when Gotze didn't even play in that cup and did not even start featuring somewhat regularly for Germany until like a year ago?

Is it not unfair to Gotze to say Neymar is better because he had a good champions league when Neymar didn't even play in that cup and did not even start featuring until this season?

I agree wait and see. But don't go about saying that Neymar has something to prove against Gotze with regards to big games.

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

Is it not unfair to Gotze to say Neymar is better because he had a good champions league when Neymar didn't even play in that cup and did not even start featuring until this season?

In fact it would be. At what point in this thread did I ever say that I believe that Gotze is better? All I've said is he's had the chance to prove himself in the CL knockouts and over a couple of seasons at a top European League where as Neymar to this point, has not.

 

[Crews]

What has Gotze proven in the CL exaclty? One good campaign?

As with the other guy if all you use is the CL and european leagues to judge the player then you cant have any real opinion as one player has no t had that chance yet.

To compare them you have to take into account Neymars other achievements and performances other wise you CANNOT compare them.

Remember that Pep tried to get Neymar before he moved for Gotze.

Götze has proven more, that's my point. And if you believe the story you can imagine that Pep didn't want to buy Götze at first due to him playing for the rival but still did and caused so big shitstorm even though he could have just bought Neymar? I think that summs it up nicely. I won't argue anymore if you want to believe that CL playoffs are nothing compared to a supercup and a match against poor form RM, then be my guest.

 

[te amo barca]

Teams in Bundesliga don't give a sh*t about defending, it's sometimes even worse than the "overrated" Brazilian league where the real talents come from for over 50 years. In fact, it's really hard to dribble in Brazil because the defenders tend to kick you a lot. Here's a screenshot from whoscored, most successful dribbles per game (in Europe,among teams)

As you can see, almost all the teams are from bundesliga, which shows not the quality of the league but the level of their defensive play. They aren't interested in it at all and that makes all skillful players shine in bundesliga. I call Bundesliga the most entertaining league, but never the best, never.
I hate this "oh it's Brazil/Argentina/some sh*tty league, he will be bad when he moves to Europe" and so on. If player has got talent and dribbles players with ease, he will do it everywhere. The problem is motivation and player's psychology.

 

[JamDav1982]

Götze has proven more, that's my point. And if you believe the story you can imagine that Pep didn't want to buy Götze at first due to him playing for the rival but still did and caused so big shitstorm even though he could have just bought Neymar? I think that summs it up nicely. I won't argue anymore if you want to believe that CL playoffs are nothing compared to a supercup and a match against poor form RM, then be my guest.

Clearly Pep does not care about taking players off a rival!

He tried for Neymar first, he has admitted as much.

 

[Cule4life]

Jamdav destroying another thread I see

 

[Alik]

.

 

[JamDav1982]

Jamdav destroying another thread I see

In what way?

By entering a debate about who has proved more?

Coming from someone with that as input is a bit rich.