Mario Gotze

[Alik]

I won't argue anymore if you want to believe that CL playoffs are nothing compared to a supercup and a match against poor form RM, then be my guest.

We're not the ones who said "Neymar still has quite a bit of proving to do in the big games compared to Götze". They've both played top games. And I agree, we'll be able to judge better after the WC rather than make claims now.

 

[te amo barca]

I also disagree with the opinion that Bundesliga is the best league in the world, yes it's the most entertaining and financially stable, but the best for me is EPL/Primera. I also love the tactic battles of Serie A.

 

[Crews]

We're not the ones who said "Neymar still has quite a bit of proving to do in the big games compared to Götze". They've both played top games. And I agree, we'll be able to judge better after the WC rather than make claims now.

I guess everyone has a point so I'll continue this conversation after the WC.

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

It's time to put this argument to bed. In terms of BIG matches they go like this(from biggest to least):

1. World Cup Final
2. Champions League Final
3. World Cup knockouts
4. Champions League knockouts
5. Euros final
6. Clasico(for Barcelona or Real Madrid players) or big team match in another league like Man U vs Arsenal or something.
7. Euros knockouts
8. Copa America Final
9. Copa America knockouts
10. Champions League group stages
11. Top 5 European league matches against non-big teams
12. World cup qualifying matches
13. Cup matches(copa del rey, FA Cup, DFB pokal, etc.)
14. Friendlies

I think that we can more or less agree on this ranking with maybe a few adjustments depending on your personal opinion.

Neymar has played one Classico, 6 CL group matches, one Copa America knockout match(not 100% sure on this), and less than half a season in La Liga. He has played in a Copa Libertadores final which is probably top 10, as well.

Gotze has played in several derbies, several matches against Bayern for Dortmund and one for Bayern against Dortmund, I believe about 10-15 CL group stage matches, I think 5 CL knockout matches, and is in his 3rd season playing consistent games in a top European league.

Let me reiterate that I don't think one is better than the other but it is QUITE CLEAR that Gotze has played in more big matches. There is no debating that.

Confederations final is probably somewhere around the same level as a CL group stage match or maybe a little bit higher but not by much in terms of a big match.

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

Also, Iniesta is the god of big matches.

 

[NeyMesSis]

Come on guys stop being biased. Neymar played well at the Confederations Cup but it's still just a warm-up tournament to the world cup. He had a good match against Real but not amazing and it took him until the last CL group game to get his first goals against an abysmal Celtic side.

I've liked Neymar so far and I admit I underestimated his talent before we signed him but Gotze was key in Dortmund's back to back Bundesliga winning side and was pretty good in the CL knockouts. Then he scored the first goal in his return to Dortmund for Bayern after he was heavily booed.



In conclusion, neither of these two are even top 10 in the world yet and still both have things to prove. I want to see what Neymar does in the CL knockouts.

. while they won the double götze was injured!!!!!!!

 

[Alik]

.

Bro, this argument was already put to bed

In your view a Champions League knockout game vs any team (could be Olympiacos) is more important than a Spanish Super Cup final vs Atletico Madrid. I get it. We agree to disagree.

 

[JamDav1982]

It's time to put this argument to bed. In terms of BIG matches they go like this(from biggest to least):

1. World Cup Final
2. Champions League Final
3. World Cup knockouts
4. Champions League knockouts
5. Euros final
6. Clasico(for Barcelona or Real Madrid players) or big team match in another league like Man U vs Arsenal or something.
7. Euros knockouts
8. Copa America Final
9. Copa America knockouts
10. Champions League group stages
11. Top 5 European league matches against non-big teams
12. World cup qualifying matches
13. Cup matches(copa del rey, FA Cup, DFB pokal, etc.)
14. Friendlies

I think that we can more or less agree on this ranking with maybe a few adjustments depending on your personal opinion.

Neymar has played one Classico, 6 CL group matches, one Copa America knockout match(not 100% sure on this), and less than half a season in La Liga. He has played in a Copa Libertadores final which is probably top 10, as well.

Gotze has played in several derbies, several matches against Bayern for Dortmund and one for Bayern against Dortmund, I believe about 10-15 CL group stage matches, I think 5 CL knockout matches, and is in his 3rd season playing consistent games in a top European league.

Let me reiterate that I don't think one is better than the other but it is QUITE CLEAR that Gotze has played in more big matches. There is no debating that.

Confederations final is probably somewhere around the same level as a CL group stage match or maybe a little bit higher but not by much in terms of a big match.

Thats your criteria, but not shared by everyone.

People acting as if Gotze has dominated the CL knockout stages for years.

He had one good - not exceptional campaign where they were almost eliminated in the QFs by Malaga.

Performing in a 'big european league'?. Neymar three months in has almost matched Gotzes best season stats for goals and assists.

As for confederations cup being on a par with CL group stages that is just not the case at all. That competition had a far higher standard of teams in and was taken seriously by the teams in it with pressure on Neymar to perform.

For me Neymar has achieved everything he could at club level and has been better on the intl stage.

 

[te amo barca]

Neymar has also won Libertadores, worth noticing.

 

[Trickykid]

It's time to put this argument to bed. In terms of BIG matches they go like this(from biggest to least):

1. World Cup Final
2. Champions League Final
3. World Cup knockouts
4. Champions League knockouts
5. Euros final
6. Clasico(for Barcelona or Real Madrid players) or big team match in another league like Man U vs Arsenal or something.
7. Euros knockouts
8. Copa America Final
9. Copa America knockouts
10. Champions League group stages
11. Top 5 European league matches against non-big teams
12. World cup qualifying matches
13. Cup matches(copa del rey, FA Cup, DFB pokal, etc.)
14. Friendlies

Euros final AFTER ChL playoffs? Really?

 

[beautifulgame]

Neymar has also won Libertadores, worth noticing.

THIS. was a leader in winning this with his team.

this forum does not recognize how hard it is to win this tournament. it can get very physical, intense and tactical.

 

[Alarcón]

I meant that performing well is harder when you're playing against better opponents.

And the difference is that Götze has done well for years and has proven himself in CL, while Neymar hasn't, I don't mean that Neymar can't do that but until he does you can't assume he will and claim he is better than Götze on that basis.

Having Reus, Kroos, Özil etc. fighting for the same positions differs quite a bit from Hulk, Oscar and the other, and no I don't think they are bad players but they as well have quite a bit of proving to do. I'm not even sure who Neymar actually has fighting for the LW position in the Brazilian NT.

In a nutshell; when you have two amazing talents, but only one has proved himself in the big games for multiple seasons, I will rate that player as the better one until proven otherwise. If Neymar indeed has played better than Götze when we are having this conversation after the WC, I will have no problems admitting it.

Neymar has won the Confed Cup and the Copa Libertadores, he scored against Argentina and against Atlético and Real Madrid, two of the top 10 teams in the world. I'm not sure which big games you're referring to that Götze did so incredibly well in, Dortmund dropped out of the CL in the group stages 2 years ago; last year, they faced Shakthar and Málaga (where he constantly failed in front of goal) until the semi final, where he was taken off with an injury and subsequently didn't take part in the final. It doesn't matter how good his competition in the NT is, or would you say that Klose is better than Bale because he has more competition? Neymar would walk into the German NT easily.

I'd say Neymar is well above Götze both in terms of achievements and stats against great teams, but well, obviously you favour your own talent, so there's no point discussing that matter any further.

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

What great teams has Neymar played besides an exhausted Spain, Real Madrid still getting used to Ancelotti, and Atletico in a not so important match?

 

[beautifulgame]

What great teams has Neymar played besides an exhausted Spain, Real Madrid still getting used to Ancelotti, and Atletico in a not so important match?

football exists before europe brah.

we don't have to account your lack of realization of that. i know your not that familiar to the scope and depth of the game when you say things like that.

 

[JamDav1982]

What great teams has Neymar played besides an exhausted Spain, Real Madrid still getting used to Ancelotti, and Atletico in a not so important match?

What great teams has Gotze played in CL knock out rounds?

Real Madrid I give you that. What about after that?