Martin Montoya

Alarcón

New member
Do you also remember very well his brilliant assist to Messi for the 1st goal? This is Alves, sometimes he loses the ball and the other team exploits the space. That doesn't happen at often as some imply. If it did, we wouldn't be the team with the best goals against average in La Liga.

How is this relevant to what I said? Him not tracking back in the last minute of the game showed his lack of effort and discipline and an assist doesn't rectify that; if anything, it shows he could have done a lot better had he really tried. Has nothing to do with teams "exploiting space" in this particular case. And I specifically said "last season and the season before I wouldn't have agreed with you" so your goals against stat of this season has nothing to do with what I said. I commend him for improving in this regard this season but suggesting Dani wasn't sub-par for a long stretch of time would is just revisionist.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
How is this relevant to what I said? Him not tracking back in the last minute of the game showed his lack of effort and discipline and an assist doesn't rectify that; if anything, it shows he could have done a lot better had he really tried. Has nothing to do with teams "exploiting space" in this particular case. And I specifically said "last season and the season before I wouldn't have agreed with you" so your goals against stat of this season has nothing to do with what I said. I commend him for improving in this regard this season but suggesting Dani wasn't sub-par for a long stretch of time would is just revisionist.

That incident wasnt evidence of Alves not tracking back.

Alves gave away a free kick in the Getafe half as he was the one pressing the player on ball. The ref gave a free kick and Alves did argue with him but then stayed with the man taking free kick to try and stop them taking it short and slowing game down as he was nearest man to ball.

It wasnt Alves fault that the CF ran from the middle out wide with barely anyone doing anything to stop him.

The Barca team have played for years with Alves pressing high up park and he is very good at it. If ball gets passed him and into the RB area they have to be able to deal with it and they didnt.
 

serghei

Senior Member
It wasnt Alves fault that the CF ran from the middle out wide with barely anyone doing anything to stop him.

Yea, I agree. Fabregas and Bartra are more to blame than Alves here, especially Fabregas, who sees Gavilan going out wide but doesn't even try to follow him.

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Gnidrologist

Senior Member
He doesnt do that through lack of effort or fitness it is because it would be physically impossible to ask him to be a player that more or less plays as an attacking midfielder at times to get back and defend every time.

The team know he cant do that and it is the responsibility of other players in the system to help out and defend on his side - Rakitic being the best at it.
Problem with this is that Rakitic can contribute to attack much more qualitatively than current Alves, which means suboptimal situation. Alves, who does fuck all to penetrate or create danger up front has to be constantly nursed by Raktic thus wasting hist time and energy he could've had spent passing and shooting. If we can't have Alves of yore, who could run up and down the field like duracell rabbit i'd rather our RB be purely defensive one. It suffices that Albas is constantly up field and he also tends to loose the plot in defense from time to time. Unlike in golden years of Alves we now have 3 equally formidable threats in form of forwards, so having defenseless Alves there is overkill and even clutters the overall offensive movement. I have seen several times that several of our players are crowding small space and only getting in each others way.
 

Stric

New member
Alves is one of the players who give their all on the field. 100% true professional. Sometimes he makes mistakes, but that's because he tries to make things happen instead of playing it safe 99% of the time, like an ordinary fullback would.

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were trolling. If there is one player who absolutely does not give his 100% on the field, it's Alves.
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
12/13 and 13/14, he was at an all time low. This season, he's upped his work ethic enough for him to not really be a defensive downgrade compared to any of the other fullbacks (it actually seems like Montoya is fucking declining defensively). 3.9 tackles per game in La Liga doesn't exhibit him 'doing fuck all in defense', it's just that he lacks the discipline to stay back for a majority of the time and doesn't give us much security which is just a byproduct of his profile, not a sign of attitude issues. He still does make the effort to press and close down higher up the pitch. Montoya, on the other hand, is very shaky these days and does not really enhance us in any way whatsoever. Alves is not good in defense but with Rakitic there and Montoya not adding any security even with more defensive presence, I don't see any better idea.

In terms of attack, I find it a bit ridiculous to say that his attacking contributions are negligible just because he's not constantly creating attacking chances. This season, much more than the past two, Alves is actually important for us going forward. If you judge Alves based on the 'big picture', no he is not our biggest threat or a source of 438290423 goalscoring chances per game. However it is more accurate to judge him intrinsically for the role he plays in which he enhances our attacking threat for every given scenario MUCH more than either Douglas or Montoya would. Our net attacking strength is better with him there as a result. He checks in like an extra midfielder and actually does link up with Messi and Rakitic quite regularly. His presence in that right flank trio makes our shape much more dynamic and helps us get between the lines. I find it difficult to see how one can ridicule the Alvessi connection when it constantly helps us in ball movement or helping stimulate Messi whereas Montoya does nothing to make him better or add a tandem attacking threat. Alves of 13/14 would just cross it >20 times per game and give us nothing but with his more interior role he is actually helpful in buildup and less of a crossing burden than present day Alba.

I was one of Alves's biggest critics in years past. I still have issues with him. It's just that this scenario makes it much harder than it was previously to criticize him. Now he has greatly improved his attitude (Lucho has even said he's the one who trains best). His flaws can be masked by Rakitic to a certain extent. He's quit it with the crossing addiction and plays with more intelligence now. On top of that, the only player that could have threatened his position (Montoya) has clearly regressed in some aspects while plateauing in others.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
I honestly cannot fathom how you Alves supporters can even argue over this. I won't waste my time anymore on such absurdity.

Can argue over it because it is not remotely true. One of Alves main strengths is how much ground he covers and how hard working he is.
 

DinhoR10

New member
I don't think its an attitude issue, he's not alba and frankly has never been alba even in his prime. If we lose the ball and he's in his corssing position he's not going to make it back in time even with all the effort in the world. This season has actually been better now that he doesn't go out wide as much and is playing more like an extra body in midfield and leaving the crossing to Alba who can actually run back in time(atleast most of the time, whenever he's crossing nowadays is because the team as a whole isnt playing well).
 
I don't think its an attitude issue, he's not alba and frankly has never been alba even in his prime. If we lose the ball and he's in his corssing position he's not going to make it back in time even with all the effort in the world. This season has actually been better now that he doesn't go out wide as much and is playing more like an extra body in midfield and leaving the crossing to Alba who can actually run back in time(atleast most of the time, whenever he's crossing nowadays is because the team as a whole isnt playing well).

This, though I'd take prime Alves over Alba any day.
It won't be easy to replace Alves.
 

Chong Li

New member
Training individually today.

I really hope he will be available on Saturday. I know its only Eibar, but we simply cannot risk starting a must-win game with a "footballer" like Douglas.
 

Zangash

Banned
Training individually today.

I really hope he will be available on Saturday. I know its only Eibar, but we simply cannot risk starting a must-win game with a "footballer" like Douglas.

Who the hell is Douglas?

If we can't use Montoya or Dani we should use Bartra or Edgar IE as RB instead.
 
L

linetty

Guest
Montoya didn't train with the group this morning due to thigh muscle discomfort
 

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