Neymar Jr. - v5

[DonAndres]

Terrible take, dude. First of all, Messi doesn't get 'more attention', this is not the 80s any more with man to man marking. Its purely zonal, and Messi abandons the wing to play in the middle, thats why it seems he gets more attention, actually its because he isn't disciplined to the wing and shifts to a more congestioned zone. Guess what? If Messi still played as a winger, he would be marked by the same amount of players as Neymar.

Oh, and Iniesta close control style was so useful today.. /irony

That's as black/white an assertion as I've seen. I didn't claim that Juventus had 2 or more players glued to Messi or Neymar at all times. They maintain their shape as a defensive unit for the most part but will adjust specifically when certain players are on the ball or trying to sneak in. When Neymar got the ball Alves/Cuadrado would shape up in front of him with Pjanic or Bonucci behind them. With Messi it was Sandro/Khedira with Pjanic supporting and Dybala often running back just to press him when he was on/near the ball. You can see the difference in pressure when certain players are near the ball while others are given more space because they're less of a threat. This has been the case for years with Messi, who'd often start plays because of the space he creates for others when multiple defenders collapse onto him when he had the ball. Many teams have had specific plans to constrict space and nullify Messi, it doesn't have to be 'dinosaur man-marking' to implement a selective press. It's ludicrous to suggest that collective defending is just 100% blind zonal marking and no asymmetries exist to focus on key areas or players, especially in those situations where said players are on the ball.

The other side of the coin would be selectively overloading certain areas in possession and attack/pressure them heavily when there's a specific weakness. Juventus did this with Mathieu repeatedly in the first half, our left side was targeted. Our right side was often targeted when Roberto was at RB too. Once again, attacking AND defending tactics are constantly adjusted to exploit specific weaknesses.

And if you actually did read my post, then you'd see that I specifically referred to prime Iniesta.

 

[Alik]

He will...













...step up.

in the Camp Nou. Maybe.

 

[BBZ8800]

in the Camp Nou. Maybe.

I believe in our team and Neymar in the second leg.
But then he'll just dissapear in the next 3 matches.

I seriously do believe that we can turn this around again.
But only to lose to Celta/Malaga 3 days later.

That's our reality.

Our team managed to have only 3-4 matches twice this season without a draw/defeat.

Again, I can't blame it only on Lucho.

Some of our guys are satisfied with random good matches where they show their brilliance and that's it.
After that they return to mediocricy, haircuts, youtube, Justin Bieber, rapping, dancing, Instagram.

Also, if we won't win a Cl or La liga this season, it will be 2 La ligas, 1 Cl and only a few Months of a world class form from Neymar in his 4 years here.

The only thing which is consistent about him is: he'll be inconsistent as hell.

5 days ago he was the best player in the world in 2017.
After that he helped in ruining our la liga chances with a red card and played in a ghost mode in a Cl.
Ok, the whole team played that way, but we expect more from an undisputed no1 in the world in 2017.

These 5 days perfectly show what can we expect from Neymar. More or less everything, in every match.

For the end, the funny thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls a miracle display in the 2nd leg and save us.
But again, is that good enough on a larger sample?

 

[JerseyAddict]

The only thing which is consistent about him is: he'll be inconsistent as hell.

5 days ago he was the best player in the world in 2017.
After that he helped in ruining our la liga chances with a red card and played in a ghost mode in a Cl.
Ok, the whole team played that way, but we expect more from an undisputed no1 in the world in 2017.

These 5 days perfectly show what can we expect from Neymar. More or less everything, in every match.

For the end, the funny thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls a miracle display in the 2nd leg and save us.
But again, is that good enough on a larger sample?

That isd the problem with him. He makes wonders and then he makes nothing. Messi makes wonders and then makes less than wonder but more than solid. That is the difference. An please people do not shit me about "Neymar is young" and developing shit... me is here to provide... nothing less.

 

[BBZ8800]

That isd the problem with him. He makes wonders and then he makes nothing. Messi makes wonders and then makes less than wonder but more than solid. That is the difference. An please people do not shit me about "Neymar is young" and developing shit... me is here to provide... nothing less.

Not only Messi.

This is how Messi usually plays (this is just my estimation, NOT A FACT):
Out of 10 matches:
4 for 10/10
2 for 9/10
1 for 8/10
1 for 7/10
1 for 5/10
1 for 2/10

Neymar:
3 matches 10/10
3 matches 5/10
4 matches 1/10

So, yes, Messi and other players have bad days, but when they are bad, they are still ok-ish or average in 80-90% of matches.
When Neymar is bad, he is quite often the worst player in our team killing every action or doing absolutely nothing.

From how I remember (I may be too romantic about past times), but Xavi never had: the best player and the worst player on a field in space of 3 days. He was always either a Goat, or at least good. How many times during his prime was Xavi the worst player in a team?
Ronaldinho was world class and then average in some matches, but rarely the worst player on a field.
Etoo also.

So, yes, all players play hot and cold and have some bad days, but Neymar is bringing this hot-cold onto new levels.

What is worse, it is not only Neymar.
Mats, another key position is quite similar.
On some days he will play like the best Gk ever, while on other days he will concede virtually any shot.

I did say this before, but instead of players who play hot and cold (Neymar, Mats etc), I would rather have a slightly weaker player who plays consistently good.

For example, imagine if Neymar plays this way:
1st match: 10/10
2nd match: 1/10
3rd match: 10/10
4th match 3/10
5th match: 10/10
6th match: 1/10

I would rather have a guy who, when on form, is NOT as good as prime Neymar, but who will play the same more or less always (or somewhat the same), like:
1st match: 8/10
2nd match: 7/10
3rd match: 8/10
4th match: 8/10
5th match: 6/10
6th match: 8/10

This guy will never score 4 goals in one match and have 10 dribbles per match, but he will consistently have 3-4 good actions and assists (creating clear chances for teammates), a few dribbles, decent defensive work, zero red cards, zero problems etc.

The same is with Mats.
Instead of having a GK like him who plays:
1st match: 10/10
2nd match: 1/10
3rd match: 10/10
4th match: 10/10
5th match: 1/10
6th match: 10/10
= these matches when he plays horrible are just way too costly.

I would rather have a guy (Cillessen maybe, or someone else) who is NOT THAT good on prime, but who is "always there" and always reliable, like:
1st match: 8/10
2nd match: 8/10
3rd match: 8/10
4th match: 9/10
5th match: 7/10
6th match: 8/10

Currently we have way too many players who go from 10/10 to 1/10 in 3 days.
On Sunday, we can win 7:1 against anyone, and 3 days later:
Mats won't be able to save any shot.
Neymar will lose 10 balls in a row.
Rakitic won't be able to make a 2 yard pass.
Suarez will play like a pub player etc.

What is the point of players who are good for 3 Months and bad for 9 Months (for example)?
I would rather have guys who are slightly less shiny (when on prime) but who are consistently good or okish for majority of a season.

 

[Yashar1899]

I believe in our team and Neymar in the second leg.
But then he'll just dissapear in the next 3 matches.

I seriously do believe that we can turn this around again.
But only to lose to Celta/Malaga 3 days later.

That's our reality.

Our team managed to have only 3-4 matches twice this season without a draw/defeat.

Again, I can't blame it only on Lucho.

Some of our guys are satisfied with random good matches where they show their brilliance and that's it.
After that they return to mediocricy, haircuts, youtube, Justin Bieber, rapping, dancing, Instagram.

Also, if we won't win a Cl or La liga this season, it will be 2 La ligas, 1 Cl and only a few Months of a world class form from Neymar in his 4 years here.

The only thing which is consistent about him is: he'll be inconsistent as hell.

5 days ago he was the best player in the world in 2017.
After that he helped in ruining our la liga chances with a red card and played in a ghost mode in a Cl.
Ok, the whole team played that way, but we expect more from an undisputed no1 in the world in 2017.

These 5 days perfectly show what can we expect from Neymar. More or less everything, in every match.

For the end, the funny thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls a miracle display in the 2nd leg and save us.
But again, is that good enough on a larger sample?

Yesss
Dream -> Sell Neymar to Real madrid and buy -> Kroos - Carvajal - Dembele and Isco

 

[Sneer]

Everyone here analyzing BS and not putting tactics into consideration.
In Neymars first season with Barca ( even till date with the NT) he wasn't restricted to playing so wide and hugging the wings.
Lucho is limiting playing him too wide, instructing him to stay on the wings and thus restricting his movement and fluidity.
Barca's opponents find it easier to stop him because of this, they can simply put 3 players around him and stop him from being effective.
If you have ever played football competitively at any level, you'd know its difficult being restricted to the flanks.
A clear indication of how bad Lucho's tactics are is that Neymar was basically doing exactly what Rakitic was doing at the other wing last night.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

What? I always thought all the pitches are the same size in top league games!

That's why i rely on Neymar in the camp nou, the surface of our pitch is damn big and intimidating.. It's both an advantage and a burden (i belive we suffer away because our players are not used to smaller football pitches ).
The internet says that our stadium is as big as the Bernabeu but i don't believe that .. Even Veratti mentioned this to Matuidi in a joined interview, he underlined how much big is our pitch.

Parc des Princes and Camp Nou have the same dimensions. Anoeta is biggest in Spain and yet we always struggle there.

 

[aaron101]

Parc des Princes and Camp Nou have the same dimensions. Anoeta is biggest in Spain and yet we always struggle there.

There's actually a video on Youtube where Draxler, Veratti and Matuidi dining in a restaurant before the 2nd leg match and were talking about Camp Nou pitch being big.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

There's actually a video on Youtube where Draxler, Veratti and Matuidi dining in a restaurant before the 2nd leg match and were talking about Camp Nou pitch being big.

I know, but they are wrong.

 

[abiabi]

That's as black/white an assertion as I've seen. I didn't claim that Juventus had 2 or more players glued to Messi or Neymar at all times. They maintain their shape as a defensive unit for the most part but will adjust specifically when certain players are on the ball or trying to sneak in. When Neymar got the ball Alves/Cuadrado would shape up in front of him with Pjanic or Bonucci behind them. With Messi it was Sandro/Khedira with Pjanic supporting and Dybala often running back just to press him when he was on/near the ball. You can see the difference in pressure when certain players are near the ball while others are given more space because they're less of a threat. This has been the case for years with Messi, who'd often start plays because of the space he creates for others when multiple defenders collapse onto him when he had the ball. Many teams have had specific plans to constrict space and nullify Messi, it doesn't have to be 'dinosaur man-marking' to implement a selective press. It's ludicrous to suggest that collective defending is just 100% blind zonal marking and no asymmetries exist to focus on key areas or players, especially in those situations where said players are on the ball.

The other side of the coin would be selectively overloading certain areas in possession and attack/pressure them heavily when there's a specific weakness. Juventus did this with Mathieu repeatedly in the first half, our left side was targeted. Our right side was often targeted when Roberto was at RB too. Once again, attacking AND defending tactics are constantly adjusted to exploit specific weaknesses.

And if you actually did read my post, then you'd see that I specifically referred to prime Iniesta.

Sorry for saying "terrible take", I was a bit heated for the loss

Every team in Spain does that to Neymar, though. Juve didn't re-invent football. Its just that Neymar didin't have the Alba outlet (neither did Messi) and it cost us a lot.

People are going to laugh at me but no way we deserved a 3-0 loss yesterday. In the first half I honestly felt we could score at any time, we were unlucky and Juve didn't seem like a solid rock people are talking about.

I know now our chances are slim to none so whatever..

 

[Horatio]

Parc des Princes and Camp Nou have the same dimensions. Anoeta is biggest in Spain and yet we always struggle there.

I read that Elche's pitch is the largest.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

I read that Elche's pitch is the largest.

you're right. Both larger than camp nou.

 

[JerseyAddict]

People are going to laugh at me but no way we deserved a 3-0 loss yesterday. In the first half I honestly felt we could score at any time, we were unlucky and Juve didn't seem like a solid rock people are talking about.

I know now our chances are slim to none so whatever..

One that laughs didn't watched the game.
Iniesta chance was sitter... Missed 76 sec before Dybala knocked 2:0.
Suarez missed a sitter.

We missed they scored. Easy as that.

 

[Total-Football]

a player whose sole job is to play football and play hundreds of games on parc ded princes can't be wrong about such thing. what is wrong are those ridiculous numbers in the internet. anueta is long but in term of width hes not as large as the camp nou not even close. and u skipped the part where matuidi concurred and confirmed What veratti said.. unless u insist everybody is wrong of course.