Neymar Jr. - v5

[TornAndFrayed]

I'd like to know where this "hype level" stuff began. It's also something I don't see elsewhere. Those comparison with Messi were always stupid. Any player compared to the GOAT will look bad. And the thing is he is our player, not someone else. The thing I find unforgivable about a player is laziness. At least this he isn't. He'll regain his form eventually, when the team is playing under a clear system again. Neymar and most of the players who are currently underperforming.

Also, I know for a fact that one of his most fervent haters wants him to fail, even if this means Barça failing too, so he can say he was "right about him all along". I can't support that, it's petty, immature and ridiculous. And surely not a thing a real Barça fan would want to happen. That's why what you call "criticism", I know it's something else, from some people here.

It started in 14 15. Once barça started cruising the KO games, some people started talking about ballon d'or in the coming year or two, how Neymar was clearly ahead of Suarez, etc.

I remember criticizing Neymar's gameplay then. He scored a lot of important goals, most of it using his great pace, but generally wasn't working well with the ball. People got defensive reaaaally quick at that, some saying that there couldn't possibly be a lot more room for improvement like i was saying.

Neymar proved them wrong themselves in the fall of 2015, then progressively regressed to his current state. Still, for most of 2016 a lot of users here refused the notion that Neymar's performances were on the wrong track.

 

[dakt]

It's possible he'll improve. I'm not sure he can get any worse. But so many players have been unusually abysmal this season. The lack of structure is a much bigger problem. We only attack through the left now. This makes it easier for the defenses to neutralize our players, as they have one sector less to worry about. Messi needs to go back to rw, the right side and midfield need to be fixed.

Agreed.

No, it's not you. And yes, you know him.

Let's not make enemies here since there are none. I know many with strong opinions and none of them are willing to see Barca fail just to bury Neymar.
I'm pretty sure all of the "usual criticizers" would or better said will glorify Ney once he starts to dominate the pitch. Till then, he is subjected to criticism just like any other player....except Messi

 

[DonAK]

To suggest Messi level performances of him is unreasonable anyway. Anyone who thinks Neymar can even reach half of Messi's level is clearly not in the right state of mind. We'll never see a player like Messi again or even someone with half the talent + consistency as him. I know some people say that you should never say never, but I'm confident in that we're seeing a once in a lifetime player.

But if he could realize his potential and deliver World Class performances, that would be good enough. He's doing that for Brazil, but not for Barcelona for over a year now.

Whether a change in system or a more hands on coach will help him reach that I don't know, but I think it's worth the risk.

All this thing about hype is not his fault, nor was the cost of his transfer and what his father, Rosell, Bartomeu etc. did his fault either.

And if he cannot do that, then you can move on from Neymar if you got a suitable replacement lined up, but I would not give up on him just yet despite his really underwhelming and inconsistent displays. I think a coach like Sampaoli who's a great motivator, a good tactician and a guy who hold players accountable for their actions and level of play could suit him very well, and if not? Then.....it's time to move on.

 

[Horatio]

Anyone who thinks Neymar can even reach half of Messi's level is clearly not in the right state of mind.

Not sure if hyperbole or I am not in right state of mind.

 

[footyfan]

His role needs to be restricted to running onto Messi's passes, making runs behind the defence and finishing chances. Stop all this dribbling and ball hogging in the middle, it doesn't lead anywhere often. The defensive work is good, but how is a player expected to finish chances when they have to run so much all game to get on the end of these passes. I know some people here get a hard-on from his running stats, but maybe stay up front, stay away from the ball and make runs into the box. This might help Neymar. There is no need for him to create goals like he's Messi, it takes ball-time away from Iniesta and the other midfielders, and Neymar is always in front of the defence rather than behind. It's not surprising that his goal tally dropped so precipitously over the past couple of seasons.

 

[DonAK]

Not sure if hyperbole or I am not in right state of mind.

Hyperbole, but I don't think it's realistic at all no matter how talented Neymar is.




















Actually, when I think about it.

 

[BBZ8800]

Great post.

I would say the shit show is ignited by the side that ONLY criticises and that too by a large amount. I haven't seen anyone who defends him say he is best or anything like that. The neymar supporters here just argue for one thing only and that is the criticism even though right for him is way too exagerrated over here and he isn't THAT bad.

You don't remember well then.

1-2 years ago mods had to "burn" a few Ney's threads, it started this way:
xx: Omg, he scored xx goals this season. He is already better than Ronaldinho, Etoo, Rivaldo etc
Me and some guys: Wtf, are you serious?
Then add random 100-1000 pages of going in circles.

So, yes, by his fanboys, he was called better than Ronaldinho, Etoo etc.
Even during his best days (2014-15) it was a total blasphemy to compare him with Ronaldinho.

I sustained serious injuries to my fingers while I needed to type and reply to 100s of those insane posts from his fanboys back then.

I was even banned/deleted on this forum in a beautiful summer of 2013 with my previous account because I used to write that we shouldn't have bought him, that he was too expensive and not worth all the fuss.

Anyway, no need to reply to this post because it is not related to a current debate.
I am just saying, there is no way that Ney-haters alone are guilty for Neymar's threads on Barca's forum.

There are at least 3-4 strong reasons for debates about Neymar:
1. his haters, who exaggerate
2. his fanboys, who exaggerate
3. Neymar with his poor to meh form in 3 out of 4 Barca's seasons
4. a world record transfer fee and a questionable return of an investment

 

[navidjaan]

I have this dirty thought of not minding to cash in on him big time.

 

[Horatio]

I sustained serious injuries to my fingers while I needed to type and reply to 100s of those insane posts from his fanboys back then.

I was even banned/deleted on this forum in a beautiful summer of 2013 with my previous account because I used to write that we shouldn't have bought him, that he was too expensive and not worth all the fuss.t

Love the dramatic touch.

 

[BBZ8800]

- I'm not even a real Barca fan, I started watching Barca games due to the MSN, and it is entirely possible that when Messi leaves or quits and Neymar will be playing elsewhere, I will not be close to this team anymore. As an ex professional player and coach (also as an old fart) I just love nice, creative, aesthetic, playful and joyful football and that led me to this team.

As Bojan said, yes, it explains a lot.

In early 00's when young CR7 came to Man U, I liked his dribbling skills back then.
I was a fan of Barca, but I loved to watch other teams with good players and ManU mostly because of young CR7 back then.
Since I wasn't a fan of ManU, but a fan of a player (young CR7), I didn't care about his personality, antics, being a diva, being cocky, rude, whatever.
I also didn't care if ManU won or lost games.
I just wanted to see him on a field for 20-30 minutes back then and watch and laugh at his crazy dribbling skills back then (which were insane).
(Messi didn't "exist" back then so we didn't even know back then that we will soon see even a better guy)

So, I get your point of view.
If somebody told me back then: CR is a crap and he ruins ManUtd's game, I would reply: you are crazy, he is awesome (or something like that).
Since I didn't care about club's results, tactics, build up play, teamplay. I just wanted some fun and crazy dribbles to watch and enjoy the show.

Again, I can understand where are you coming from.
But being a fan of young Cr7, Neymar and similar and being a fan of a club is quite different.
When you love a player, you don't care that much about results and tactics. You just want to see dribbles and show. You want to relax, enjoy and have fun.

Well, as a fan of Barca, I want trophies and results first. Fun comes after those two.
And for example, I think that Neymar's style (show) is killing and ruining our team. Not to mention how 250-300M Euros invested in him are ruining our club.
You, as a fan of a player probably don't care about those 250 Millions or about Barca's trophies (as much as we do).

** About me loving young CR7, sorry guys, don't kill me.
But he was really fun to watch back then, a totally different player than RM's CR7.

Sorry for this also, his debut for ManU, aged 18, he was quite fun to watch back then:

Anyway, it is quite different to look at a player (Neymar or any other) if you are fan of a player and you just want to see good moves, dribbles and a good show.
Or if you are a fan of club and you are looking for some other things in a football match.

 

[mark1nhu]

I think a dozen guys received that PM where he says that he want Neymar to fail so he can laugh at everyone who thought and wanted him to succeed here. Doubt he sent it to those critical of him though as that would make no sense.

Wait, what? Someone actually sent a PM saying that?

Jesus Christ...

 

[mark1nhu]

Still, for most of 2016 a lot of users here refused the notion that Neymar's performances were on the wrong track.

I would like to know which of Neymar's supporters don't recognize he is below 14/15. Because the usual names I can identify here (myself included) have no problem admitting that.

On the other side, I could mention several names (if Bojan wasn't going to delete my post) always overreacting here and blatantly giving unfair criticism based on personal agendas.

After that is the very same snowball effect...

 

[Potroh]

It's fairly reasonable deduction that he cares more about those players than Barca.

Almost true, more or less...
All I care about is to see enjoyable, creative and nice football. That's how I started watching and following Barca, because this team was the only one playing THAT kind of the game.
Of course once one steps into the caldron, and you get to know the team you sort of become a fan. But that's right it may fade when only mediocre players add up the team, even if it wins all the time.

I'm not a fan of any individual player, neither Neymar or anyone else, perhaps Messi as the only exception, because he is a talent that you can hardly ever see.
But I'm old enough to foretell that many of you will be proud in 15-20 years when mentioning to the youngsters that you had regularly been watching the MSN... By that time nobody will actually remember which year the team won the Liga, this or that cup, but the MSN will be still legendary. Not only due to the titles they collected but the way, form, creativity and before all the ARTISTIC qualities they represent...

 

[mark1nhu]

His role needs to be restricted to running onto Messi's passes, making runs behind the defence and finishing chances. Stop all this dribbling and ball hogging in the middle, it doesn't lead anywhere often. The defensive work is good, but how is a player expected to finish chances when they have to run so much all game to get on the end of these passes. I know some people here get a hard-on from his running stats, but maybe stay up front, stay away from the ball and make runs into the box. This might help Neymar. There is no need for him to create goals like he's Messi, it takes ball-time away from Iniesta and the other midfielders, and Neymar is always in front of the defence rather than behind. It's not surprising that his goal tally dropped so precipitously over the past couple of seasons.

Agree, but we need a creative midfield able to keep ball possession. Forget about it until Lucho is sacked. We won't have that with him.

 

[Barcaman]

Almost true, more or less...
All I care about is to see enjoyable, creative and nice football. That's how I started watching and following Barca, because this team was the only one playing THAT kind of the game.
Of course once one steps into the caldron, and you get to know the team you sort of become a fan. But that's right it may fade when only mediocre players add up the team, even if it wins all the time.

I'm not a fan of any individual player, neither Neymar or anyone else, perhaps Messi as the only exception, because he is a talent that you can hardly ever see.
But I'm old enough to foretell that many of you will be proud in 15-20 years when mentioning to the youngsters that you had regularly been watching the MSN... By that time nobody will actually remember which year the team won the Liga, this or that cup, but the MSN will be still legendary. Not only due to the titles they collected but the way, form, creativity and before all the ARTISTIC qualities they represent...

I'll remember Pep's 2009-2011 Barca way more because that was what Barca is all about and what I've been dreaming of watching us coming close with Van Gaal and then being resurrected under Frank.