Neymar - v2

[dalitis8]

Arguments I read in here against signing Neymar are (correct me if I am wrong)

1. He will cost too much.

2. He will take time of our youngsters.

3. He will not fit/will struggle to adapt to our play.

4. He is not as good as many think. The Brazilian league makes him look better than he actually is.

5. He is an airhead.

6. There may arise a conflict of interests with Leo Messi.


My reply would be:

1. Anything around 40m for Neymar sounds good to me. He seems genuinely talented. We need another superstar forward player. That is my view.

2. If we sell Villa in the summer, there will be plenty of room for all. I don't have to repeat that we are overloaded with games every season + you are gonna have injuries. Just look at our current situation regarding forward players. Couldn't we use a Neymar at the moment?

3. He seems very technical and extremely aware. His passing and vision are very good and will surely improve further, especially if he gets to play/train with our boys.

4. Bollocks! Santos were hammered by us because we were on top of our game in that CWC final. We would have hammered just about anyone on that night. As for all the Brazilian players who excel in Europe, where do they come from? Do they learn everything in Europe? I think not. Now, we cannot be at all certain about his true potential, but all evidence suggests that he is an awesome prospect. Honestly, I have not seen anyone with Neymar's particular brand of controlling the ball, and his manner of volleying it!

5. That's what I thought at first myself, but he seems like a good kid (stupid haircut aside, really what's with that cretin primitive haircut and footballers anyhow) It seems that reasonable people are managing him, and are not letting fame and money take his brains away. But he sure needs to cut his hair if he will play for us.

6. This is the most difficult one. If Neymar turns out to be as good as he promises, then it will take a Pep (and probably, nobody else could pull it off) to manage things. Neymar will surely be obedient and overawed at first, but I am not so sure how it will turn out if he turns out to be awesome. I also fear a potential (but maybe unlikely rift, between Spanish speakers and Portuguese speakers in our team)


But just think about what a front-line of Alexis-Messi-Neymar could potentially do.

 

[DucdeOrléans]

Most of your post is speculation...

First... I'm Colombian and I watch south american and european tournaments, that's all I meant, not that I was better qualified.
Second... So I follow many leagues just like the people you call experts, god forbid I disagree with you or them.
Third... Where did I say Tello was better than Neymar? I said that for the price it would be better giving a chance to Tello.
Fourth... Neither Rivaldo, Ronaldo or Dinho came to europe to a team of the caliber we are right now, they had to adjust in smaller teams first.
Fifth... For every Ballon d'Or prospect there is a Keirrison, and that's what I think we should avoid considering our financial issues.
Sixth... I have never said he doesn't fit our team (in football terms), I said Tello might be a better fit because of him being raised in the club.

And your post is not speculation?

If you have not realized it yet then we are all speculating in this thread otherwise we would not have discussed whether buying Neymar is good or not since we would have known it beforehand.

Well so do I. I just did not see any reason to mention it.

You might disagree with them but surely you could tell why the Brazilian league is WAY inferior (what you said) compared to European football. Are you not sure that you are exaggeration for the sake of it (to make your point stronger)?

Where did I write that you have said that Tello is better than Neymar? I am just saying that Tello is not proven yet at all unless you regard 300 minutes of play as proven on the highest level. Remember Bojan?

They were still top clubs. The point still stands. Just because they are not proven in Europe (for obvious reasons) it does not make them less talented than European talents playing in Europe. Nor do they need to be proven in Europe to be better than their counterparts in Europe.

Obviously there are risks whenever you buy a player. ALSO players that are proven in Europe.

But why mention Tello at all? Does Tello exclude buying Neymar and vice versa? I mean we are still buying world class players (Cesc, Alexis) despite having the best midfield and attack. I am sure I don't need to explain why that is.

 

[barcelonista]

Even if the Brazilian league is inferior to European top leagues (which is the case obviously), it surely isn't of a lower standard than the Segunda. And I don't see anyone doing the things Neymar does in the Segunda. So his talent is undeniable, Brazilian league or not. The major concerns are much more his mentality and character (and his stupid haircut). And his price tag. Although I believe he's already Barca bound tbh. The way he praises Messi and Barcelona recently indicate that Rosell must have made some agreements behind closed doors. Dude has turned from "I want to surpass Messi" to "Messi is the best" all of a sudden.

 

[Flavia]

Even if the Brazilian league is inferior to European top leagues (which is the case obviously), it surely isn't of a lower standard than the Segunda. And I don't see anyone doing the things Neymar does in the Segunda. So his talent is undeniable, Brazilian league or not. The major concerns are much more his mentality and character (and his stupid haircut). And his price tag. Although I believe he's already Barca bound tbh. The way he praises Messi and Barcelona recently indicate that Rosell must have made some agreements behind closed doors. Dude has turned from "I want to surpass Messi" to "Messi is the best" all of a sudden.

Comparing brazilian league with segunda is wrong... br league is much better. Barça and rm aside, I really don't see the rest of spanish teams being that better than most brazilian teams. All the other teams (valencia, athletic, atletico included) would struggle in the br league. It's really not as inferior as you guys think, to compare it with the segunda.

 

[barcelonista]

Comparing brazilian league with segunda is wrong... br league is much better. Barça and rm aside, I really don't see the rest of spanish teams being that better than most brazilian teams. All the other teams (valencia, athletic, atletico included) would struggle in the br league. It's really not as inferior as you guys think, to compare it with the segunda.

I didn't compare it with the Segunda. My point was: "even IF" it was just like the Segunda, Neymar's individual performances would still stand out.

 

[Aryagorn]

Brazilian League was third, in terms of FIFA coefficients, a season ago... behind only Spain and England

 

[Robbie]

The BR league is very soft though. The slightest touch and any attacking player goes down like they've been shot, and the refs always go straight for their pocket.

 

[barcelonista]

I guess it's just like the Bundesliga without Bayern. Open attacking football with lots of exciting young prospects.

 

[gingerless]

The BR league is very soft though. The slightest touch and any attacking player goes down like they've been shot, and the refs always go straight for their pocket.

so you're saying that the brazilian league is like la liga if you were madrid?

 

[Robbie]

Why do you think we keep seeing all these trick penalty highlights coming out of the BR league? They get them so often they have time to practice them

 

[DucdeOrléans]

Brazilian League was third, in terms of FIFA coefficients, a season ago... behind only Spain and England

Exactly. It's hugely underrated by some here (who probably never watched more than a few games if any)

Robbie:

Not exactly true although they are surely more prone to give soft free kicks than say in England. You also need to have in mind that there is regular league (with 38 matches as well that runs from late May to late December (Southern Hemisphere). The rest of the time they play regional championships (for example Campeonato Paulista) It's the latter where you mostly find the soft calls and sometimes outrageous defending.

I am sure Flavia can confirm this.

 

[Reasonus]

Reason speaks:
(This is a long-assed post, jump to the summary to get the gist of it.)

- Comparisons between Neymar and Robinho are already invalid as Neymar has been performing consistently at a higher level. He's showing more promise than Robinho ever did.

- He's genuine talent. Anyone who doubts his talent doesn't know what to look for in a player. In addition, he's already an established talent, a great performer, and not just a kid with potential. He can instantly improve a team should he decide to move.

- From what I have seen this far, he's way ahead of Tello and if both players develop well, he will still be way ahead of Tello in 10 years.

- $30-40m would be appropriate for this kid in a season or two. It's not just about getting this player, but preventing your main rivals from signing him too. Rosell, I have to admit, did a fantastic job of blocking Madrid's attempts at luring him away from Santos.

- Unfortunately, I can't possibly watch his games on a regular basis and the S. American posters most likely know far more about his consistency than I do, but I do believe he is consistent since we hear about him leading his team frequently. Furthermore, he seems to have a superior passing ability and vision to Sanchez's, which is of great importance in Barcelona.

- This whole phobia from having a "foreign" player taking a home-grown kid's place is far too narrow-minded. Suppose Cesc wasn't brought up in La Masia but was just as good as he was in Arsenal, should we have blocked his move because he would have taken Thiago's place and hampered his development?

Same can be said about Sanchez. His presence as a regular means that one of Cuenca/Tello should be on the bench every other game and given that we already have Pedro, and Villa in the near future, we should sell one or two players?

We have a midfield of Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Fabregas, Keita, Thiago, and potentially Mascherano and Afellay? Should we sell half of them so that the others get more minutes? I'm quite happy we have those amazing midfielders and the availability of Thiago and Cesc have decreased the load on Xavi and Iniesta to some degree, and they are bound to get better in the coming seasons and can replace the midfield duo better with experience.

We are in several competitions and anything less than a win, and a comfortable win at that, is hardly acceptable from this team. We need more players and this season proves it.

Tello, Cuenca and Neymar can coexist. They are all young and have 10 seasons in them at a high level. Everybody gets to play on a semi-regular basis. Moreover, each offers something unique and can be of immense strategic value against different opponents.

Keep in mind that this Tello-mania is largely based on a few good performances, or more accurately, on a few good pacey runs - something we don't usually see in Barcelona. Tello's direct runs is more thrilling to the fans, but to me, Cuenca is more skilled and can potentially offer more against parked buses. Both are rightfully praised though.

- Compatibility - this one, to me, is the most important part, and it encompasses several aspects:
* Playing style: Neymar's style is compatible with Barcelona's style and he was advised by his coach to choose Barcelona mainly due to that point. He's quick, smart, good passer, world-class dribbler, and has pace. He's young and his attitude can be mended and therefore his team work and his work rate can improve.

A starting forward line of Messi, Alexis, and Neymar, when compatible and in form, will be one of the best in history, if not the best. You have three players who have phenomenal ball control, have a great deal of football intelligence, are fast, and above all, are top dribblers with a consistent capacity to beat defenders and frustrate them to no end. Sanchez isn't a good passer and obviously Neymar can't match Messi's magical passes, but this trio will be made to last. All three of them are below 25 and can form a formidable partnership. All can finish too.

Villa is a great asset partly due to his reputation as a ruthless scorer which prompts opposing coaches to man mark him, sometimes double mark him. Alexis doesn't quite have this reputation, but he's making a name for himself as a scorer and sooner or later, coaches will have to include him in their defending plans too. Neymar's abilities will have a similar effect too. So basically you have coaches with constant headaches trying to find a solution to mark those players. Then you have the best midfielders in the world, all of whom can venture forward and exploit the spaces and score goals, as well as Alves who can terrorize defenders from the right flank. You will have an even more potent attacking line-up than we have ever had. They can park airbuses for all we care.

*Mentality: I believe this is Guardiola's main concern and after the Ibra drama, he has every right to be worried about that part. Neymar likes to be the center of attention, but he's in awe of European football and Barcelona's in particular. If he comes straight to Barcelona, which he knows will not allow him the spotlight, he will, for the lack of a better word, behave. Unlike Ibrahimovic who was already and still is praised for being a winner in every country and had his ego hyperinflated, he will be eager to prove himself.

Unlike Ronaldinho, he won't be the star of the team. He will be in a team of superstars, from Pique to Iniesta to Messi, all the players are superstars and he will be just another star.

The more I read about this guy, the more I'm convinced he's not another Ibra, or another Cristiano. He looks more like another Alves. Alves isn't La Masia-humble and certainly has that Brazillian showboatism about him, but is there a cule who dislikes Dani?

I believe Neymar, under the guidance of Pep (should he decide Neymar is good for Barcelona and not Sandro) can adapt well and fit in without major issues caused by his attitude.

*Physique: Neymar isn't physically strong and will have a hard time against some physical defending in Europe. Will he maintain the same skillset if he hits the gym more often? I don't have enough knowledge about this point.

*Financial aspect: The player will cost close to $40m and he will demand a high wage. I think we can afford him though, but the $50m per season policy, as well as having exceeded our budget for a season when we got Alexis and Cesc, make it difficult to get him in the next transfer window.

The rumors link Neymar, Alba, and Silva to Barcelona and all three players will strengthen our squad. Jordi Alba won't be that expensive and we already have Adriano in that position, so he's not needed this season. Our central defense is in dire need of reinforcements and Thiago Silva is the only available world-class defender. He will come at a hefty price though.

Our attack does not need Neymar next season, but the sooner he comes the better for his adaptation process to commence. And if we lose Messi to a nasty injury, we need someone with enough individual skill to take his place and I can't think of a better player than Neymar. It's well-known that Messi is irreplaceable, but I believe Neymar will be a worthy replacement in that he will be a constant threat and will create space for his teammates.

Summary:

- Neymar is the real deal and not just some other over-hyped kid touted as an heir to a former legend.
- His playing style is compatible with Barcelona and his attitude doesn't seem to be as bad as some fear. His ego hasn't grown to a level that makes it irreversible like Ibrahimovic's or Cristiano's.
- Just because we have a prospect in that position doesn't mean we have to refrain from buying the best players out there. La Masia is great, but so are Alves, Alexis, and Villa. We are currently the biggest team in the world and our injuries this season show that we need a larger squad. We have six midfielders for three places, why not six forwards for three places as well? We have so many games to play, plus 3 subs in every game that every player can get enough minutes if they show their value.
- Finally, an attacking trio of master dribblers and scorers will terrify and potentially break any defense in the world.

Reason has spoken.

 

[DucdeOrléans]

Reason speaks:
(This is a long-assed post, jump to the summary to get the gist of it.)

- Comparisons between Neymar and Robinho are already invalid as Neymar has been performing consistently at a higher level. He's showing more promise than Robinho ever did.

- He's genuine talent. Anyone who doubts his talent doesn't know what to look for in a player. In addition, he's already an established talent, a great performer, and not just a kid with potential. He can instantly improve a team should he decide to move.

- From what I have seen this far, he's way ahead of Tello and if both players develop well, he will still be way ahead of Tello in 10 years.

- $30-40m would be appropriate for this kid in a season or two. It's not just about getting this player, but preventing your main rivals from signing him too. Rosell, I have to admit, did a fantastic job of blocking Madrid's attempts at luring him away from Santos.

- Unfortunately, I can't possibly watch his games on a regular basis and the S. American posters most likely know far more about his consistency than I do, but I do believe he is consistent since we hear about him leading his team frequently. Furthermore, he seems to have a superior passing ability and vision to Sanchez's, which is of great importance in Barcelona.

- This whole phobia from having a "foreign" player taking a home-grown kid's place is far too narrow-minded. Suppose Cesc wasn't brought up in La Masia but was just as good as he was in Arsenal, should we have blocked his move because he would have taken Thiago's place and hampered his development?

Same can be said about Sanchez. His presence as a regular means that one of Cuenca/Tello should be on the bench every other game and given that we already have Pedro, and Villa in the near future, we should sell one or two players?

We have a midfield of Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Fabregas, Keita, Thiago, and potentially Mascherano and Afellay? Should we sell half of them so that the others get more minutes? I'm quite happy we have those amazing midfielders and the availability of Thiago and Cesc have decreased the load on Xavi and Iniesta to some degree, and they are bound to get better in the coming seasons and can replace the midfield duo better with experience.

We are in several competitions and anything less than a win, and a comfortable win at that, is hardly acceptable from this team. We need more players and this season proves it.

Tello, Cuenca and Neymar can coexist. They are all young and have 10 seasons in them at a high level. Everybody gets to play on a semi-regular basis. Moreover, each offers something unique and can be of immense strategic value against different opponents.

Keep in mind that this Tello-mania is largely based on a few good performances, or more accurately, on a few good pacey runs - something we don't usually see in Barcelona. Tello's direct runs is more thrilling to the fans, but to me, Cuenca is more skilled and can potentially offer more against parked buses. Both are rightfully praised though.

- Compatibility - this one, to me, is the most important part, and it encompasses several aspects:
* Playing style: Neymar's style is compatible with Barcelona's style and he was advised by his coach to choose Barcelona mainly due to that point. He's quick, smart, good passer, world-class dribbler, and has pace. He's young and his attitude can be mended and therefore his team work and his work rate can improve.

A starting forward line of Messi, Alexis, and Neymar, when compatible and in form, will be one of the best in history, if not the best. You have three players who have phenomenal ball control, have a great deal of football intelligence, are fast, and above all, are top dribblers with a consistent capacity to beat defenders and frustrate them to no end. Sanchez isn't a good passer and obviously Neymar can't match Messi's magical passes, but this trio will be made to last. All three of them are below 25 and can form a formidable partnership. All can finish too.

Villa is a great asset partly due to his reputation as a ruthless scorer which prompts opposing coaches to man mark him, sometimes double mark him. Alexis doesn't quite have this reputation, but he's making a name for himself as a scorer and sooner or later, coaches will have to include him in their defending plans too. Neymar's abilities will have a similar effect too. So basically you have coaches with constant headaches trying to find a solution to mark those players. Then you have the best midfielders in the world, all of whom can venture forward and exploit the spaces and score goals, as well as Alves who can terrorize defenders from the right flank. You will have an even more potent attacking line-up than we have ever had. They can park airbuses for all we care.

*Mentality: I believe this is Guardiola's main concern and after the Ibra drama, he has every right to be worried about that part. Neymar likes to be the center of attention, but he's in awe of European football and Barcelona's in particular. If he comes straight to Barcelona, which he knows will not allow him the spotlight, he will, for the lack of a better word, behave. Unlike Ibrahimovic who was already and still is praised for being a winner in every country and had his ego hyperinflated, he will be eager to prove himself.

Unlike Ronaldinho, he won't be the star of the team. He will be in a team of superstars, from Pique to Iniesta to Messi, all the players are superstars and he will be just another star.

The more I read about this guy, the more I'm convinced he's not another Ibra, or another Cristiano. He looks more like another Alves. Alves isn't La Masia-humble and certainly has that Brazillian showboatism about him, but is there a cule who dislikes Dani?

I believe Neymar, under the guidance of Pep (should he decide Neymar is good for Barcelona and not Sandro) can adapt well and fit in without major issues caused by his attitude.

*Physique: Neymar isn't physically strong and will have a hard time against some physical defending in Europe. Will he maintain the same skillset if he hits the gym more often? I don't have enough knowledge about this point.

*Financial aspect: The player will cost close to $40m and he will demand a high wage. I think we can afford him though, but the $50m per season policy, as well as having exceeded our budget for a season when we got Alexis and Cesc, make it difficult to get him in the next transfer window.

The rumors link Neymar, Alba, and Silva to Barcelona and all three players will strengthen our squad. Jordi Alba won't be that expensive and we already have Adriano in that position, so he's not needed this season. Our central defense is in dire need of reinforcements and Thiago Silva is the only available world-class defender. He will come at a hefty price though.

Our attack does not need Neymar next season, but the sooner he comes the better for his adaptation process to commence. And if we lose Messi to a nasty injury, we need someone with enough individual skill to take his place and I can't think of a better player than Neymar. It's well-known that Messi is irreplaceable, but I believe Neymar will be a worthy replacement in that he will be a constant threat and will create space for his teammates.

Summary:

- Neymar is the real deal and not just some other over-hyped kid touted as an heir to a former legend.
- His playing style is compatible with Barcelona and his attitude doesn't seem to be as bad as some fear. His ego hasn't grown to a level that makes it irreversible like Ibrahimovic's or Cristiano's.
- Just because we have a prospect in that position doesn't mean we have to refrain from buying the best players out there. La Masia is great, but so are Alves, Alexis, and Villa. We are currently the biggest team in the world and our injuries this season show that we need a larger squad. We have six midfielders for three places, why not six forwards for three places as well? We have so many games to play, plus 3 subs in every game that every player can get enough minutes if they show their value.
- Finally, an attacking trio of master dribblers and scorers will terrify and potentially break any defense in the world.

Reason has spoken.

Great post. Much of this I and others have been saying for months now.

 

[AnfieldEd]

I hope you buy him I really do.

 

[Raed]

I hope you buy him I really do.

What do you have against Flash, Swag, Talent, Beauty, Skills, Panache and Success?



oh, Liverpool...