Ousmane Dembélé

[Birdy]

Our position on Dembele is the same as Bayern's on Alaba, in both cases the club wanted to renew with the player. The only difference is, in Alaba's case, as far as I know, negotiations kept going and Bayern didn't want to sell or had no time to sell (too late to sell) and let him finish his contract and leave on good terms. Alaba didn't respect his club's wishes (wanting to keep him) or conditions (what conditions were there to speak of?).

No, it's NOT. I already explained the difference.
Look also at the difference with Mbape.

When I say 'respect the club's will' it does not mean comply with their intention to renew you with X amount of money.
It means either agree mutually to a renewal or leave UNDER the conditions the club desires.

Conditions are:
"Sure, you want to leave (or we could not agree), bring us an offer at the value we want from the club you want to play for"
All clubs do that, and it's what each player has to respect.
If the player tries to play smart "No, I will leave whenever the fuck I want with no offer from any club" he should have consequences.

You can't leave under YOUR conditions and not the conditions of the club.

 

[Windhook]

The difference is that Bayern decided to play Alaba on the pitch for the 1 year left on his contract and not sell, for sporting reasons.
(and I am pretty sure it was because they hadn't signed a replacement. They later signed Upamecano)

In comparison to Barca, Bayern at that point (and still) were not in rebuild mode, no need of improvement in any area and so forth. Also the service Alaba gave them in the last 10 years had to be respected and both parties did that. Dembele accomplished 5-10% at most for what he was bought for and that ridiculous transfer fee... and now going on social media demanding respect for giving it all in training and recovery.

 

[BarcaOG]

That's off topic.
His sporting value does not excuse fucking around with a club.

Look at what Mbape did with PSG (who offered immense sporting value to them) and contrast it with Sissoko and Dembouz.
Levels...

theyre related, because unless the player in question actually contributes to the team (like mbappe does), they have no leverage

what makes dembele such a joke is that he DOESNT have that leverage and he is STILL trying to snake the club

 

[Luftstalag14]

and on what evidence do you think we can 'get something' out of him?

Common sense. Playing a player vs not playing a player, the likelihood of some positive outcome of the former is at least statistically bigger than the latter, right?

Unless if you think playing him harms the team, jeopardizing our game and other plays, or he is going to score some own goals or something.

 

[Birdy]

On the contrary,
a club that does not respect the will of the player would be someone like Levy at Spurs who does not agree to sell a player wanting to leave (Kane) for any amount of money.
City were willing to pay even 200m for him, and Levy would use his contract to keep him hostage.
Kind of what Barto did with Messi in 2020, when he wanted to go.

That's the other side of the coin: a club malpracticing and not respecting the player.
Dembouz and Moriba are examples of the malpractice of players not respecting their cllubs

 

[Luftstalag14]

No, it's NOT. I already explained the difference.
Look also at the difference with Mbape.

When I say 'respect the club's will' it does not mean comply with their intention to renew you with X amount of money.
It means either agree mutually to a renewal or leave UNDER the conditions the club desires.

Conditions are:
"Sure, you want to leave (or we could not agree), bring us an offer at the value we want from the club you want to play for"
All clubs do that, and it's what each player has to respect.
If the player tries to play smart "No, I will leave whenever the fuck I want with no offer from any club" he should have consequences.

You can't leave under YOUR conditions and not the conditions of the club.

Isn't that what Mbappe is doing right now? Mbappe is not renewing or willing to be sold this month, is he?

 

[Birdy]

In comparison to Barca, Bayern at that point (and still) were not in rebuild mode, no need of improvement in any area and so forth. Also the service Alaba gave them in the last 10 years had to be respected and both parties did that. Dembele accomplished 5-10% at most for what he was bought for and that ridiculous transfer fee... and now going on social media demanding respect for giving it all in training and recovery.

Off-topic as well.

You and OG are discussing whether his demands are sound and should be accepted.
I am not examining that.
I am examining what happens after there is no agreement between the parties.

 

[JamDav1982]

Dembele absolutely has leverage which is why club tried to renew him.

He improves squad and significantly helps financial situation if was to renew. With Barca still wanting to sign players in January.

If the club pays him to sit in stands no one wins bar some argument it might help Barca in future in same situation.

 

[BarcaOG]

Common sense. Playing a player vs not playing a player, the likelihood of some positive outcome of the former is at least statistically bigger than the latter, right?

Unless if you think playing him harms the team, jeopardizing our game and other plays, or he is going to score some own goals or something.

thats really silly because it applies to any and every player and not anyone of them in particular

unless you specify what it is that DEMBELE adds, and how likely he is to do so, the point is as obvious as saying that a team with a coach is likelier to do better than a team without one, which is, again, obvious

 

[BarcaOG]

Off-topic as well.

You and OG are discussing whether his demands are sound and should be accepted.
I am not examining that.
I am examining what happens after there is no agreement between the parties.

no,

my point is simpler: why bother have negotiations given that up to now dembele hasnt actually added anything to the team, and certainly nothing commensurate with his cost

 

[feggydinho]

theyre related, because unless the player in question actually contributes to the team (like mbappe does), they have no leverage

what makes dembele such a joke is that he DOESNT have that leverage and he is STILL trying to snake the club

Honestly they fit each other, the only reason Dembele outrageous demand was published was to make him look funny cause Barca never contemplated giving him his former wage not to talk of increasing. I don't see Dembele leaving before 31st, and we'll probably put him in the stands till his contract expires

 

[Birdy]

Isn't that what Mbappe is doing right now? Mbappe is not renewing or willing to be sold this month, is he?

Mbape not renewing, BUT he is respecting any decision (sell or keep) made by PSG

Explained it:

the player said he will not renew, and wants to go to Madrid.
If PSG had agreed a fee with RM, he would be gone.
Now that they decided not to sell to RM, and use him on the pitch for the remainder, he also respected the decision of his club.

If he was like Dembouz and his agent, he would not have agreed to leave in the summer even in the case a fee was agreed between the clubs.
You see the difference?

Levels

 

[JamDav1982]

Mbappe situation is not comparable and he would only go to Real anyway not 'respect' PSGs decision to sell him anywhere.

Dembele most likely has no club lined up to pay for him now as a planned final destination.

 

[Luftstalag14]

thats really silly because it applies to any and every player and not anyone of them in particular

unless you specify what it is that DEMBELE adds, and how likely he is to do so, the point is as obvious as saying that a team with a coach is likelier to do better than a team without one, which is, again, obvious

Well, I can't quantify it, but like I said before when he came on or played, he brought a breath of fresh air and offered us more options up front, without him it was just slow-assed circulating the ball around and static. Not saying he is great or is good at what he does, but he adds something to the game.

The fact Xavi values him speaks to something, for me at least.

But again, that is NOT the point here. The point is we are paying his wages, we might as well get something out of him while he is here.

 

[Birdy]

It's fairly simple, and everyone can understand it:

Club respecting the decision of the player: Accepting that he wants to leave, and accepting X club as destination

Player respecting the decision of the club: Accepting to be sold WHEN the club wants to and AT the value the club decides, OR to be used on the pitch until his contract ends