Pep Guardiola

[Flavia]

Give it up man. You can't convince people that don't want to be convinced. Some people still think global warming is a myth.

But convinced of what, actually? That Pep was bad? I honestly don't care if he had issue with especific players. It's hard to deal with people, and as he managed to make these players win 14 of 19 trophies, he did extremely well on dealing with the most of them.

 

[jamrock]

let me just address one thing poor tranfer record.
chyga,helb who else?

masch,alves,kieta,villa,pique,adriano

Ibra is a special case but without him we wouldnt have won the league.
now i know what some will say, the club signed those players, but the rebutt to that is obvious.
could go on, but i will just say I can see why meta left because some of you guys are .....

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

I'm not sh!ting on Pep. Just disagreeing with those who say he had Great Man Management skills.

I disagree for the reasons already stated.

 

[cloned warrior]

well his man management were so awesome that Harvard should write a Case Study and Hollywood should make a Movie!!!

Show me another one or even "special one" who has won 14 out of 19??

he certainly was "THE ONE"!!

 

[jamrock]

if you win 14 titles in four years and having all but a few players willing to follow your every word blindly and keeping them motivated. if that isnt a great man manager, then jose isnt because he has failed to get iker on his side and neither is saf because of all that happened with rvn,becks and ronaldo.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

that's fine if you disagree with me on the man management skills. You aren't going to convince me otherwise though. too many complaints and obvious issues with Pique that didn't require a body language expert to decipher.

He's one of the best managers of all time, that is not in doubt. I just disagree on that one aspect.

 

[Ursegor]

Not according to Bojan, Ibrahimovic, Yaya-Toure. There were clearly problems between Pep and Pique.

Well, sometimes players can be dicks and it's completely their fault and not the manager's. I'll take a completely random example to make it clear for you. Let's say ... hmmmm ... HATEM BEN ARFA!

- bust up with Benzema and Squillaci at Lyon. Refused to arrive to training and forced a move to rivals Marseille

- at Marseille publicly badmouthed his former team, saying that Lyon "lacked class" and "wasn't a great team"

- not too long after his arrival in Marseille he had another bust-up with new teammate Djibril Cissé

- in the warmup for a CL game against Liverpool he had another bust-up with teammate Modeste M'bami

- in a match against PSG he completely refused to warm up to come of the bench which infuriated his manager Gerets

- not too much later his club fined him with € 10,000 for missing training

- then he had a bust-up with new manager Deschamps

- when Newcastle showed interest in Ben Arfa, he did what he did before he moved to Marseille: he did not attend training and told L'Equipe he would not play again for Marseille

- not to mention Ben Arfa's most recent bust up in the national team with Laurent Blanc in the Euros

See? Some players are just SCUM, SCUM and SCUM. Of course this doesn't apply to any of the mentioned Barca players. No Barca player bar Figo was THAT scummy. But you get my point. Sometimes it's the player's and not the manager's fault.

Also: if you want perfect man management from a manager, you have to get Alex Ferguson hired. Ask Berbatov. Oh, wait. Bad example. I meant Mourinho. Just ask Pedro Leon or Kaka. UPS, hold on, I meant ... ehhh ... whatever.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

there will always be players that are difficult to deal with at certain clubs and that is a test of a managers man management skills.

Yaya and Bojan were not difficult players. Not sure what went on with Pique last season, but I don't think he is difficult either. Ibrahimovic only caused real trouble after being socially blanked by Guardiola as far as I know.

 

[DennyCrane]

When I say Pep :
2 's success didn't come out of the blue with a bunch of nobodies, the team eon the CL 2 years previously.
3 has poor man management skills : non catalan players that have left us have stated that they felt ostracised
4 has a relatively poor transfer record: Zlatan,Alexander,Chygrynsky...
5 benefited from having the best player in the world, arguably the goat playing for him injury free for the most part
6 had the full backing of the board
7 Spent over 200 million in 4 years. Even Madrid only average 50 million a year because they spend insane ammounts every 5 years or so.
8 benefited from an excellent crop of youth players and a maturing of senior players

1. I am stating facts. Not diminishing from what he did, it was absolutely legendary BUT perspective is important people.

1. It's obvious you're stating "facts". Yet you provide no conclusion and the context is still unclear after skimming a few pages back. So let me guess: You came to disturb the party with everyone going "I miss Pep" "I love this guy so much" etc. So you provided these "facts" to come across as the voice of reason. Yet, your reasoning and your motivation seems dubious to me.

2. 2008/2009 was his first season of being a coach in the 1st league, yet he won the sextuple; a unique achievement. Evolving the team from the utter crap that they played at times under Rijkhaard is his achievement alone. Also, this helped popularizing Barca and its brand of football and set an example to the whole world. Many teams try to copy our style and rightfully so. Trying to relativise that because he didn't field a pub-team is futile.

3. The statements of players who failed to succeed at our club are not trustworthy as the motivation of these players is unclear. What they felt is irrelevant. You know nothing about how the team is managed internally and neither do I.

4. This was never his field of expertise nor his field of duty. Coach only gives recommendations, what happens is up to Zubi and the board. Conclusion: No relevance to determining the qualities of Pep as a coach.

5. Should he sell him so he gains reputation in your eyes, seriously what world do you live in ?

6. Should he start a fight with the board ? Being respected and having the support of the board is something he had to earn over many years. And he earned it. So this is a positive, but nothing one can hold against him.

7. Like 4. Also, when making decisions - mistakes happen. It's paper-pushers like you that come out of their hole to criticize the decision-maker after the coast is clear. Furthermore, the income the club generates now is due to marketing/sponsoring: Deals, that were only made possible by being so unbelievably successful. 200 million is a joke to what the club could generate if it feeded of its reputation. And btw. if you want a correct transfer-balance, you have to subtract the income from selling players. Just in case you didn't know.

8. Like 2 and 5.

Your facts are "facts". Dangerous half-knowledge. So either you have some real facts you didn't declare, or this is a cheap attempt of agitation.

If I came across harsh, then sorry. Please take it non-personal. But the way you were going here had to be answered.

 

[Deco 20]

As far as I know there wasn't much of a problem between Pep and Pique except that Pep was worried about Piques decline, and Pique being frustrated about it too

if you win 14 titles in four years and having all but a few players willing to follow your every word blindly and keeping them motivated. if that isnt a great man manager, then jose isnt because he has failed to get iker on his side and neither is saf because of all that happened with rvn,becks and ronaldo.

Don't forget Berbatov.

 

[Theconomist]

Frankly it was very late and I did not read thoroughly. I'll answer you below.

 

[Henry_IB]

@Denycrane

Paper pushers like me? I was going to humor you with a reply but after that personal attack I don't believe you deserve one. You have no idea who I am. Not in the showing off sense but really do you know who I am? Hint: you do not. I'd like to keep this discussion going but not before you apologize.

Honestly, grow some thicker skin. He even said in his reply that you should not take it personal and apologized in advance if he came across as harsh. To me this just seems like a cheap attempt to avoid answering him.

 

[jamrock]

some just like to find the smallest details to justify thier little options too much, they throw out 3 players to question his transfers before looking at all the successes. throw out 3 players to say he is a bad man manager and forget the dinner with henry, the talk with eto'o in his first season which saw him give us a brilliant season and little problems off it, the talk with masch that made him accept the CB position, the dinner with pique that saw a instant improvment on the pitch

 

[Theconomist]

1. It's obvious you're stating "facts". Yet you provide no conclusion and the context is still unclear after skimming a few pages back. So let me guess: You came to disturb the party with everyone going "I miss Pep" "I love this guy so much" etc. So you provided these "facts" to come across as the voice of reason. Yet, your reasoning and your motivation seems dubious to me.

2. 2008/2009 was his first season of being a coach in the 1st league, yet he won the sextuple; a unique achievement. Evolving the team from the utter crap that they played at times under Rijkhaard is his achievement alone. Also, this helped popularizing Barca and its brand of football and set an example to the whole world. Many teams try to copy our style and rightfully so. Trying to relativise that because he didn't field a pub-team is futile.




Again there seem to be some confusion. I never said Pep was mediocre as a coach. I said people tend to overlook the bad side.





3. The statements of players who failed to succeed at our club are not trustworthy as the motivation of these players is unclear. What they felt is irrelevant. You know nothing about how the team is managed internally and neither do I.




That is true however it is very onvious that the preference for Catalan players is there and if more than one player came out and said the same thing I doubt they are all lying.




4. This was never his field of expertise nor his field of duty. Coach only gives recommendations, what happens is up to Zubi and the board. Conclusion: No relevance to determining the qualities of Pep as a coach.




Pep does have a say in the matter. He often named
Players that he wanted the club to bring in. Sure he didn't open the checkbook but when you tall about a coach's transfer record I think that is implied.





5. Should he sell him so he gains reputation in your eyes, seriously what world do you live in ?




not. Again all I am saying is we need to remove the rose tinted glasses when analysing Pep's tenure. What he did was unique,spectacular but not miraculous.






6. Should he start a fight with the board ? Being respected and having the support of the board is something he had to earn over many years. And he earned it. So this is a positive, but nothing one can hold against him.




holding it against him. All I said is he had the best environment to succeed and he did.





7. Like 4. Also, when making decisions - mistakes happen. It's paper-pushers like you that come out of their hole to criticize the decision-maker after the coast is clear. Furthermore, the income the club generates now is due to marketing/sponsoring: Deals, that were only made possible by being so unbelievably successful. 200 million is a joke to what the club could generate if it feeded of its reputation. And btw. if you want a correct transfer-balance, you have to subtract the income from selling players. Just in case you didn't know.




We haven't had a positive balance sheet from transfers in years. Obviously the 200 million isn't 'nothing' as the club is heavily indebted. This could become much worst than it is if/when the tv money in spain is restructured.






8. Like 2 and 5.

Your facts are "facts". Dangerous half-knowledge. So either you have some real facts you didn't declare, or this is a cheap attempt of agitation.

If I came across harsh, then sorry. Please take it non-personal. But the way you were going here had to be answered.


It seems I came off unlike the way I wanted. Look at the past few pages, people have this idea that Pep came in a team that was in a chaotic state and magicaly made it into the best team ever. All I said was while there is truth in that It wasn't as simple.i think we can agree on that.

There. Under each number.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

some just like to find the smallest details to justify thier little options too much, they throw out 3 players to question his transfers before looking at all the successes. throw out 3 players to say he is a bad man manager and forget the dinner with henry, the talk with eto'o in his first season which saw him give us a brilliant season and little problems off it, the talk with masch that made him accept the CB position, the dinner with pique that saw a instant improvment on the pitch

I've acknowledged all his successes.

Of course he would have to talke to Eto'o. he REFUSED to leave.