Pep Guardiola

[FCBarca]

That is true however it is very onvious that the preference for Catalan players is there and if more than one player came out and said the same thing I doubt they are all lying.

In logic this error is referred to as a fallacy of exclusion, ignore the non Catalans who have played under Guardiola who never said a thing...Nevermind that not one non Catalan player has ever come out to suggest let alone accuse Guardiola of some xenophobic approach to player selection or minutes...It's not only baseless but lazy and, frankly, pretty daft

Collect actual evidence and make a conclusion that's based on that rather than label a footballing & club legend as being somehow racist - it underscores how little you understand/understood about the man

not. Again all I am saying is we need to remove the rose tinted glasses when analysing Pep's tenure. What he did was unique,spectacular but not miraculous.

More than a century of footballing history has shown that what Pep accomplished in 4 years is not only unprecedented but remains improbable to match let alone better...If it weren't miraculous, there'd be some redundancy to his accomplishments in all of football's history - or at least something remotely similar...There isn't, burden of proof is on the naysayer

holding it against him. All I said is he had the best environment to succeed and he did.

Ignoring the obvious, however...He showed key stars the door who were largely responsible to prior success in Ronnie, Deco & ultimately Samu...He did it with no first team managerial experience and never deviated from his philosophy that he laid out for the public at his introduction - attack, attack, attack

No one pegged Barcelona to do well when Pep came in, they were in dire straits as a club, teetering on the edge of seeing their previous few years of success getting buried by how everything was falling apart...A lot easier to take a winning product and keep it going than it is to take a broken one and be even better than the success before...It's willfully ignorant to conclude otherwise

 

[Maria]

Not according to Bojan, Ibrahimovic, Yaya-Toure.

What happend with Bojan after that and what some former teammates of Ibra said about him just recently proved that Pep was right. And you can't mention Yaya Toure without mentioning his agent also(unless Pique's body language is more important for you than what person used to say in the press).
The one true mistake of Pep was Eto'o and strangely enough is the one that he admitted(actually both admited that they were wrong) and we even saw them together a few times last year.

And the one who was wrong as far as man management goes with Bojan was Frank. It's a good thing though that the club learned from that mistake and Deulofeu, Dongou, Rafinha or Thiago were all treated different.

There were clearly problems between Pep and Pique.

There was clearly a problem with Pique last season, when Shakira was more important for him than the team. And then Pep did with Pique the same thing that Mou did with Benzema.
And please back-up your story with sources..unless those sources are the same that said that Messi kicked Pep out or that Pep wanted to sell Villa.

As far as I know there wasn't much of a problem between Pep and Pique except that Pep was worried about Piques decline, and Pique being frustrated about it too

And now even Pique admitted that he was overweight and had a poor season. But aparently everybody is an expert in body language these days.

 

[jamrock]

the he had everything to success is so wrong, i would get at it but i would go on a rant.
but i will say one thing messi not picking up so many injuries is as a direct result of pep changing is position so its not pep getting lucky messi got over his injuries, it pep talking steps to minimize it. wont even mention how different pep's team is when compared to ricky

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

Messi getting over his injuries was due to a change in diet and specific exercises designed for him to prevent future injury.

Had nothing to do with Pep.

 

[Maria]

but i will say one thing messi not picking up so many injuries is as a direct result of pep changing is position so its not pep getting lucky messi got over his injuries, it pep talking steps to minimize it. wont even mention how different pep's team is when compared to ricky

Don't bother man..learning that Pep was the one that changed Messi's diet and got him a personal trainer it's not something a body language expert could posibly know.

Messi getting over his injuries was due to a change in diet and specific exercises designed for him to prevent future injury.

Had nothing to do with Pep.

True..it only happend at the same time that Pep arrived at the club. But it had nothing to do with him.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

Don't bother man..learning that Pep was the one that changed Messi's diet and got him a personal trainer it's not something a body language expert could posibly know.



True..it only happend at the same time that Pep arrived at the club. But it had nothing to do with him.

It had nothing to do with Pep. it was Soriano and Ingla.

 

[DennyCrane]

There. Under each number.

Since I can't figure out how to quote this now, I'll go by numbers again.

2. Ok. But you relativised his success with having an outstanding squad to field by confusing cause and effect. Fact is, it is he who evolved every single player shaping in them into the players that they are today. Lets be honest here: Before he started, who in the football world saw Xavi and Iniesta as best midfielders, what would have become of Busi and Piqué, etc. Also, people tend to exaggerate in this board A LOT, but I don't blame them as they are fans so extreme reactions (like from demi-god to assclown in a couple of days in player threads) are to be expected.

3. I see your point. But the preferential treatment of catalan players is a club-policy and not a Pep-policy. Furthermore, it's an integral part of our success. It is also meant to incite non-catalan players always to give that extra-bit more. Those who fail to comply with this unwritten rule are consequently shipped out. Statements of these players are unreliable in the way, that their motives have to be questioned: One needs a killer-reason to get his book sold, others just want to blame the club/coach for his own shortcomings. Think about it: If a clubs' policy is basically seen as groundbreaking/setting an example to others, and a player fails here, the public will always conclude that it's the players and not the clubs' fault. So they (either themselves or their managers) protect themselves and their market value from decrasing by blaming the club or the coach. But all in all, this doesn't allow conclusions to be drawn about Peps' man management.

4. Of course he has a say in that matter but it's not his decision alone. The process of decision-making is complicated in that matter: Initial idea to scout a player - watching said player and creating scout reports- evaluating these reports - draw a conclusion from the reports - give a recommendation - decide to start negotioations - solid funding of the player etc. Peps recommendations were only a fragment in this process.

5. Agreed in that it wasn't miracolous. But miracles are not to be expected from a human being so such things can't be the benchmark. What he did for the club, is the absolute peak-level one can ask for.

6. Again, your benchmark is way over the top. It always requires a solid total-package to be successful. And it certainly doesn't contail his success - it is merely a basic requisite.

7. The transfer-balance sheet is not -200 million but yes, it's negative. But: It needs to be seen in relation to what to club has gained in exchange: The intangible assets by developing a brand of football (which was Laportas' idea btw.) I don't dare to put in numbers. If the club now decided to market/feed off these assets in every possible way by, say, sell naming-rights of the stadium etc. we would be the richest club in the world in no time. The volume of the Qatar-Foundation deal would have been unthinkable if not for this success over the last few years although it was seen as a necessary evil because of FFP regulations. Since Pep was the decisive factor in this success and therefore in creating that brand, he's no part of the problem but a part of the solution.

Thank you for deciding to answer and for making your motivation clear. I have no intention to discourage you from posting something controversial or something that isn't congruent with the prevailing opinion here - quite the contrary. So please, answer/post as you see fit.

 

[Maria]

It had nothing to do with Pep. it was Soriano and Ingla.

The people who left in july 2008 and who were Economic and Financial Vice President (Soriano) & Marketing Vice President(Ingla) were the ones that changed Messi's diet and got him a personal trainer..OK.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

The people who left in july 2008 and who were Economic and Financial Vice President (Soriano) & Marketing Vice President(Ingla) were the ones that changed Messi's diet and got him a personal trainer..OK.

well don't you seem like a sarcastic, self satisfied wiseacre.

In the aftermath of this latest injury, in March 2008, a war cabinet convened to discuss a change in direction in the way Messi was managed. It comprised Begiristain, the director of football and two vice presidents: Marc Ingla and Ferran Soriano.

Marc Ingla: “We were disappointed with the fragility of Messi and his repetitive muscle strains. After the Celtic match we constructed a holistic plan for his future performance: to manage the number of meals he had, what type of food he should eat, how many hours of sleep he had to get, what type of stretching he had to do every day. It was a plan to keep him healthy and to minimise injuries. We put lots of work into it and invested lots of money to help him.”

Juanjo Brau was a fitness and rehabilitation coach who had been working with Messi, but not exclusively, since before the 2006 World Cup. Now Brau would be almost totally dedicated to Messi, a daily part of the player’s routine. He would avoid injuries, rather than recover from them. Moreover, Brau would accompany Messi on the long, debilitating intercontinental journeys to play for Argentina.

..........OK

are you satisfied yet? Or do you still think it was "Pep was the one that changed Messi's diet and got him a personal trainer" to get him over his injuries?

 

[Theconomist]

What happend with Bojan after that and what some former teammates of Ibra said about him just recently proved that Pep was right. And you can't mention Yaya Toure without mentioning his agent also(unless Pique's body language is more important for you than what person used to say in the press).
The one true mistake of Pep was Eto'o and strangely enough is the one that he admitted(actually both admited that they were wrong) and we even saw them together a few times last year.

And the one who was wrong as far as man management goes with Bojan was Frank. It's a good thing though that the club learned from that mistake and Deulofeu, Dongou, Rafinha or Thiago were all treated different.



There was clearly a problem with Pique last season, when Shakira was more important for him than the team. And then Pep did with Pique the same thing that Mou did with Benzema.
And please back-up your story with sources..unless those sources are the same that said that Messi kicked Pep out or that Pep wanted to sell Villa.



And now even Pique admitted that he was overweight and had a poor season. But aparently everybody is an expert in body language these days.

About the Shakira thing we don't know that, it was all speculation.. For all we know he might have simply been off form and the media blew it up due to how famous his girlfriend is.

 

[Maria]

About the Shakira thing we don't know that, it was all speculation.. For all we know he might have simply been off form and the media blew it up due to how famous his girlfriend is.

That was more of a joke, but he definitelly didn't took care of himself last season. For what reason I don't know.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

And so it looks like those 2 were the ones that decided to sell Ronaldinho& Deco and change Messi's diet. But when you read more you find out that those changes didn't actually took place until Pep came and brought with him new people(apart from Juanjo Brau: Lorenzo Buenaventura, Esteban Gorostiaga) and that Soriano&Ingla actually wanted to bring Mourinho as our coach(according to Laporta) and now are making Pep's succes their own when they are speaking with the press.

But I guess it the end we are free to believe what and who we want..

so the changes that Ingla and Sorriano proposed to stop Messi getting injured didn't take place until Pep came? Do you mind quoting that because I didn't see it.

You are so transparent in your blind worship by trying to give Pep credit for something he had nothing to do with in the first place by trying to link his arrival with when the changes Ingla and Sorriano proposed and spent a lot of money on.

I wonder was Pep manager back in March 2008 or even present at that meeting with Begiristain, Ingla and Sorriano?

and now you are suggesting Ingla and Sorriano are making Pep's success their own? how? by stating the facts that they held a meeting to sort out Messi's injury issues and diet? are you suggesting they are lying with your 'we are free to believe what and who we want'?

There is no point in arguing with you.

 

[mitkoa7x]

You guys are in deep with the club, there are no secrets to you

 

[jamrock]

diet is only a part of it,messi's injuries mainly came from him overburdening his muscles due to him playing on the having to track back and forward constantly and him usually dribbling for the half way lind at full speed not to mention players fouling him knowing he wasnt in a dangerous area most of the time when he started his runs. putting him in the middle closer to goal. situation sorted

 

[Maria]

so the changes that Ingla and Sorriano proposed to stop Messi getting injured didn't take place until Pep came? Do you mind quoting that because I didn't see it.

You are so transparent in your blind worship by trying to give Pep credit for something he had nothing to do with in the first place by trying to link his arrival with when the changes Ingla and Sorriano proposed and spent a lot of money on.

I wonder was Pep manager back in March 2008 or even present at that meeting with Begiristain, Ingla and Sorriano?

and now you are suggesting Ingla and Sorriano are making Pep's success their own? how? by stating the facts that they held a meeting to sort out Messi's injury issues and diet? are you suggesting they are lying with your 'we are free to believe what and who we want'?

There is no point in arguing with you.

You are right..I am so blind and transparent because I refuse to believe what you posted and instead I preffer Perarnau's version of things(who said that Pep is the one that made those changes for Messi, he talked with him when he couldn't accept Ronaldinho's departure and he let him at the Olympics).
But hey, Pep and Cruyff are my gods and they can do no wrong in my eyes..at least I admit my faults and post my sources. I'm still expecting you to do the same for Pique's problems with Pep.

diet is only a part of it,messi's injuries mainly came from him overburdening his muscles due to him playing on the having to track back and forward constantly and him usually dribbling for the half way lind at full speed not to mention players fouling him knowing he wasnt in a dangerous area most of the time when he started his runs. putting him in the middle closer to goal. situation sorted

True..and in 2008, when Messi was still playing on the wings he was still being benched by Pep in some games. That was not the case anymore after his definitive move to the middle though. Too bad that Pep couldn't do the same for Iniesta.