Pep Guardiola

[Alik]

Glad he'll be there.

He's been invited. I'm not sure he'll be there though.

 

[reDIOS10]

It would be weird for Bayern because he's technically celebrating with another team for being in the final.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

yea. I don't think he should go, and don't think he will.

 

[Barcaman]

Why shouldn't he go? He can attend whatever he wants in his spare time

 

[TornAndFrayed]

hey I'm not saying that someone else should decide for him, but there are definitely cons here for pep. Lots of BM supporters would not take it well, only the more open minded would be ok with it (imo). And if some people want him out of BM, they'll use this as bait.

But if i were guardiola i'd go

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

CL Final tickets for free? I would go that's for sure.

 

[JackaL]

Actually, most of the football celebs, the ones that retired from active football are at the final. They're invited and drink/eat in the VIP section. So, even if Barca would not invite him, he'd be invited by UEFA. Apart from that, who would blame him if he were invited to a VIP lodge by a Qatari investor? I see there's a conflict with Bayern, but this could be seen as professional.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

Its strange, I have never seen a dynamic like this in any sort of sport, a head coach at a rival team is an unabashed supporter of the team that beat his own team. This would be like if Phil Jackson had left the Bulls while Jordan was still in his prime to coach, join an equally competitive team like the Knicks or the Pistons back then, lose to the Bulls in the playoffs and then turn into the Bulls #1 fan and attend their NBA final series with a Bulls cap on. Yes, slight hyperbole but you get the point.

More than anything, Guardiola's actions during the tie, his appearance at the City game and his reactions to Messi, and in particular, his congratulations to Barca on making it to the final, showcase at least to me that the only thing that could separate him from a club he loves this much is an egoistical, self-centered fuck like Rosell. Logically, a difference of opinion with the board is the only thing that really could have pushed him out. The Moudrid media frenzy definitely didn't help, but I truly believe the only reason why he isn't still coaching us now is that he felt that this club wouldn't be the same with Rosell in charge, thus the departure.

 

[Stric]

You can't separate Guardiola from Barcelona. Even if he's not playing or coaching here anymore, he still has history here, and he's still a proud Catalan. It would be unreasonable to expect him to not support Barcelona when he's not directly playing against them. There's nothing wrong with congratulating them on advancing to the final or wishing them luck. Or supporting them in the final.

 

[StarLord]

Its strange, I have never seen a dynamic like this in any sort of sport, a head coach at a rival team is an unabashed supporter of the team that beat his own team. This would be like if Phil Jackson had left the Bulls while Jordan was still in his prime to coach, join an equally competitive team like the Knicks or the Pistons back then, lose to the Bulls in the playoffs and then turn into the Bulls #1 fan and attend their NBA final series with a Bulls cap on. Yes, slight hyperbole but you get the point.

More than anything, Guardiola's actions during the tie, his appearance at the City game and his reactions to Messi, and in particular, his congratulations to Barca on making it to the final, showcase at least to me that the only thing that could separate him from a club he loves this much is an egoistical, self-centered fuck like Rosell. Logically, a difference of opinion with the board is the only thing that really could have pushed him out. The Moudrid media frenzy definitely didn't help, but I truly believe the only reason why he isn't still coaching us now is that he felt that this club wouldn't be the same with Rosell in charge, thus the departure.

I think that you are too "romantic" in your approach. I am more of a Realpolitik kind of person.

In my mind, Pep thought that Barca were in decline after the relatively underwhelming 11/12 season, we just did not have any vintage performances that season and failed in both the league and the CL. He also sensed Bayern were on the up and that they were the team most likely to provide him with the best platform for winning a 3rd Champions League title, the Holy Grail for all big-ticket managers irrespective of all the nonsense they spout about the league being their primary targets. In a sense, he was absolutely right, but unfortunately for him the Bayern victory came too soon (from his point of view) something that seriously undermined his plans.

Managers like Mourinho and Pep (who are in high demand even from the richest clubs) prefer to choose big clubs (with lots of cash and good players) that have been doing relatively poorly (especially in the CL) so that a potential victory with them at the helm can be presented as a triumph of their genius. This is what Pep was hoping to do when he signed with Bayern, and this is what Jose has been trying to do with both Real Madrid and Chelsea ever since his Inter victory.

Some very good opportunities for big-name managers will be PSG and Man City in the near future. Both very rich clubs, still to have a CL breakthrough. Perfect opportunity for someone to feed their egos.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

You can't separate Guardiola from Barcelona. Even if he's not playing or coaching here anymore, he still has history here, and he's still a proud Catalan. It would be unreasonable to expect him to not support Barcelona when he's not directly playing against them. There's nothing wrong with congratulating them on advancing to the final or wishing them luck. Or supporting them in the final.

Please oh please don't take that as me dissing Pep. I'm not, I have the utmost admiration of that man. I'm just saying that I don't think I've ever seen an example like this in sports, period, let alone Football.

It all most be incredibly bittersweet for him and I feel for him.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

I think that you are too "romantic" in your approach. I am more of a Realpolitik kind of person.

In my mind, Pep thought that Barca were in decline after the relatively underwhelming 11/12 season, we just did not have any vintage performances that season and failed in both the league and the CL. He also sensed Bayern were on the up and that they were the team most likely to provide him with the best platform for winning a 3rd Champions League title, the Holy Grail for all big-ticket managers irrespective of all the nonsense they spout about the league being their primary targets. In a sense, he was absolutely right, but unfortunately for him the Bayern victory came too soon (from his point of view) something that seriously undermined his plans.

Managers like Mourinho and Pep (who are in high demand even from the richest clubs) prefer to choose big clubs (with lots of cash and good players) that have been doing relatively poorly (especially in the CL) so that a potential victory with them at the helm can be presented as a triumph of their genius. This is what Pep was hoping to do when he signed with Bayern, and this is what Jose has been trying to do with both Real Madrid and Chelsea ever since his Inter victory.

Some very good opportunities for big-name managers will be PSG and Man City in the near future. Both very rich clubs, still to have a CL breakthrough. Perfect opportunity for someone to feed their egos.

I feel you, while what I was saying was purely conjecture, your post focuses on facts. Personally, I think a mixture of both our posts is why he left but that's just my opinion.

But you also highlighted what is my only criticism of Pep so far in his coaching career, he needs to challenge himself more. That's the thing about Mou, as much of a diabolical douche he is, he started his legend by taking a team no ever conceived of winning a CL all the way with Porto, on a limited budget.

It's a lot easier to succeed with an established elite club than with a club on the periphery of the elite. If Pep can do what he did with us with a club like Milan right now, a West Ham, or restore a storied club like Ajax back to it's original glory. That's the ultimate coaching challenge currently with how the rich clubs are getting richer. Personally, I'd much rather steer a club
to glory with my own players and tactics and it'd be more rewarding than managing an elite, established club where I'll constantly be compared to previously successful managers.

This is a big reason why I have so much love for Jürgen Klopp and what he did at Dortmund. I'd rather see 100 clubs like Dortmund than 100 clubs like P$G and City.

 

[StarLord]

I feel you, while what I was saying was purely conjecture, your post focuses on facts. Personally, I think a mixture of both our posts is why he left but that's just my opinion.

But you also highlighted what is my only criticism of Pep so far in his coaching career, he needs to challenge himself more. That's the thing about Mou, as much of a diabolical douche he is, he started his legend by taking a team no ever conceived of winning a CL all the way with Porto, on a limited budget.

It's a lot easier to succeed with an established elite club than with a club on the periphery of the elite. If Pep can do what he did with us with a club like Milan right now, a West Ham, or restore a storied club like Ajax back to it's original glory. That's the ultimate coaching challenge currently with how the rich clubs are getting richer. Personally, I'd much rather steer a club
to glory with my own players and tactics and it'd be more rewarding than managing an elite, established club where I'll constantly be compared to previously successful managers.

This is a big reason why I have so much love for Jürgen Klopp and what he did at Dortmund. I'd rather see 100 clubs like Dortmund than 100 clubs like P$G and City.

I get what you are saying, and I partly agree, but you forget that football today is vastly different than football in the early '00s.

Back then, clubs like those of the EPL Top 4, the Clasico pair, Bayern etc were not so much richer than the rest as they are now. BBZ has alluded to this many times in his long-winded posts. If say today the richest clubs in Europe outspend (in terms of overall budgetary outlays, including both wages and transfer fees) clubs such as Porto by 6 to 1, then it was more like 3 to 1, or even 2.5 to 1. During the period when Porto won the CL, clubs like Deportivo La Coruna, Leverkusen and Valencia were making huge waves in the CL. Valencia reached two finals on the trot, beating European giants in the process. The season when Jose won it with Porto and his histrionics begun, Deportivo did all the hard work by knocking out both Juventus and AC Milan (the finalists of the previous and best club-sides in Europe at the time) and then promptly losing to Porto in the semis. It is always easier to kill the man that killed Jesse James, than to kill Jesse James himself. Porto that season had thei easiest path ever to a CL title: two referee blunders against United in the round of 16 put them through, then against Lyon in the Last 8 and then Deportivo in the semi and then Monaco in the final. The luckiet/easiest path to a CL trophy that there has ever been. Of course the legions of Mourinho fanbois conveniently omit this reality from their narrative. They also fail to take into account Jose's persistent failures failures at the CL with the very richest clubs. During the past decade or so, the biggest spenders in world football have been Chelsea and Real Madrid, two teams extensively managed by Jose, with both of which he has failed to land a CL trophy. Others managed that at the first time of asking.

Anyway, back to Pep. The chances of succeeding with the Tier 2 clubs today are far slimmer than they were 10 to 15 years ago for the reasons I have outlined. In any case, as impressive as Dortmund's achievements have been Simeone is the dude that takes the cake. His achievements handsomely dwarf those of Klopp. First of all, when Dortmund won the BuLi titles, Bayern were not really that great. It was only from 12/13 on-wards that Munich started winning the BuLi at a canter. Before that they were really problematic in both the league and the CL (yes they had some fluky runs to the final, but no-one considered them among the favorites then) Moreover, Klopp never managed to challenge on two fronts as Simeone did. Third, Atletico's financial inferiority vs Real/Barca is much, much greater than Dortmund's vis a vis Bayern. Fourth, Simeone had two domestic giants to content with while Klopp had one (and if that, since Bayern were not that great before 12/13) Fifth, Atletico negotiated a far tougher path to the CL final: AC Milan, Barcelona, Chelsea, while Dortmund "only" faced: Shaktar, Malaga (against which they were exceedingly lucky) and Real Madrid.

 

[JackaL]

I agree with the changing economics of European Football. Yet I have a hard time following your argument. First there's Deportivo, apparently winning against the then biggest sides of Europe Juve and Milan, I don't remember the scores nor the exact games, yet I feel they have shown, the would derserve the CL as well when winning against such sides. I think a year bofere that my fav club Galatasaray got into the second round and put Deportivo out before playing against RM in thr quarters. Well back to Deportivo: how is Porto so lucky, when they win against a Deportivo in a two legged semi final, the ones that eliminated both of the Italian giants? Yes, I do believe a team can have a lucky CL season, and some have an easier job than others, yet Porto won against a super strong Deportivo side would be the conclusion. I remember Porto as being pretty solid back then.

Last year's Atletico was great to watch, agree, Simeone does an incredible job, agree as well. How come Ac Milan is harder to eliminate from the tournament than Dortmund's opponent back in their super CL year? AC Milan is just a name these days, I can't recall any game where they were absolute favs in the KO-rounds of the CL lately. Dortmund overran Real Madrid

 

[StarLord]

I agree with the changing economics of European Football. Yet I have a hard time following your argument. First there's Deportivo, apparently winning against the then biggest sides of Europe Juve and Milan, I don't remember the scores nor the exact games, yet I feel they have shown, the would derserve the CL as well when winning against such sides. I think a year bofere that my fav club Galatasaray got into the second round and put Deportivo out before playing against RM in thr quarters. Well back to Deportivo: how is Porto so lucky, when they win against a Deportivo in a two legged semi final, the ones that eliminated both of the Italian giants? Yes, I do believe a team can have a lucky CL season, and some have an easier job than others, yet Porto won against a super strong Deportivo side would be the conclusion. I remember Porto as being pretty solid back then.

Last year's Atletico was great to watch, agree, Simeone does an incredible job, agree as well. How come Ac Milan is harder to eliminate from the tournament than Dortmund's opponent back in their super CL year? AC Milan is just a name these days, I can't recall any game where they were absolute favs in the KO-rounds of the CL lately. Dortmund overran Real Madrid

Let me explain then.

Like I said, it is easier to kill Paris, than it is to kill Achilles (Paris, the coward who killed Achilles with an arrow, or so the story goes) And that is exactly what Porto did that season. Deportivo did all the hard work, putting out the two Italian giants (finalists the year before) while Porto "only" narrowly beat Deportivo. Also Monaco eliminated Real Madrid (total implosion by Real Madrid against Monaco that year) This cleared the field for a 2nd Tier club such as Porto to win the whole thing. I am not saying that beating Deportivo and Monaco is totally without merit, I am saying that events that season "conspired" to make it much easier for Porto than it normally would have been. It is the same reason why fans of opposing teams wish that we lose all the time. Other European clubs prefer to face the team that beats Barcelona, rather than to face Barcelona themselves. I think that much is clear.

As for Dortmund and Atletico. My point was not that AC Milan are the giants they used to be, my point is that they are in all probability better than Zenit (well, last year's Milan at least) or to be even more precise, a route of AC Milan-Barcelona-Chelsea is tougher than a route of Zenit-Malaga-Real Madrid. By the way, they were extremely fortunate against Malaga. In the end, they only faced one great rival en route to the final, Real Madrid and ultimately it was very close, 4-3 on aggregate as Madrid rallied in the final minutes of the second leg.


As for the scorelines of Deportivo vs Juventus and AC Milan that season:


In the last 16 phase, Deportivo beat Juventus 1-0 at home in the first leg, and then beat them again by 1-0 in Turin.

Then, in the QFs, Deportivo got thrashed in Milan 4-1, even though they went ahead. Milan scored 4 goals in the space of 8 minutes to win 4-1 at home. But in the return leg, one of the most astonishing turns in the history of European football occurred with Deportivo demolishing AC Milan 4-0.