Philippe Coutinho

[terryzinc]

It is like Barto is still here. We need to drop salary so we get rid of Coutinho that makes sense but we take salary back??????? We take Aubamyang ANOTHER FORWARD already making big money. THIS MAKES NO SENSE. Laporta is the SAME as Barto!

 

[mc_lovin]

Can't believe BBZ is still simping for Coutinho of all people.

 

[DonAK]

Can't believe BBZ is still simping for Coutinho of all people.

Coutinho is the ultimate beta player. Short, weak with no grinta.

BBZ literally built up his legacy on this forum criticizing such players. Only way to explain this is that he's invested all his coins on him and that there's no way back now

To the moon!

 

[Birdy]

There is no football reason to assume that the best player of Liverpool for 4 whole years, after Suarez left, the star of their team, the 'magician' who could decide games with an action, who Klopp adored and tried until the last moment to convince to stay put...

... can suddenly turn into a mediocre 'beta' or whatever player that is good only for mid-table sides.
Absolutely no football reason...
All the hypotheses put forward here in football terms have failed big time to give a reasonable explanation.

Hence, as I wrote in the past, it's evident in my eyes that we have a case of a psychological block, and the reasons might be many.
We have at least some ground to assume that Messi's stature at the club and on the pitch was unbearable for some, was suffocating their confidence...

 

[Jadentheman]

Send him back to Liverpool and let's quickly forget this whole troublesome saga

 

[BBZ8800]

Coutinho is the ultimate beta player. Short, weak with no grinta.

BBZ literally built up his legacy on this forum criticizing such players. Only way to explain this is that he's invested all his coins on him and that there's no way back now

To the moon!

If we would have an unlimited money, Cou wouldn't be my pick anymore after his Barca's episode.

But when you look at our team, who can score?
1. Depay
2. Griezmann
3. Braithwaite
The end

Who can score from midfield?
No one.

I am not of huge fan of Pedri, but considering other options, he needs to play.
I don't rate Braithwaite, but considering other options, he is a no brainer.
I don't rate Roberto or Dest, but Emerson seems even worse.

In that sense, even a meh Coutinho could be one of our top 2-3 players.

Since our attack is average and none of midfielders (except Puig, ouch) can hit the ball properly.

This is not about ego, Ws or Ls.
I honestly want to see Cou for 10 matches without Messi on a field.

 

[jamrock]

$200 player Jesus Christ, but he cant be worst than griezmann should at least be able to run past 1 player per 90.

Everything on the field suggest he is past it, but since we can't spin him off to a mid table team anywhere, might as well give it a shot.

 

[MTL_Barca]

There is no football reason to assume that the best player of Liverpool for 4 whole years, after Suarez left, the star of their team, the 'magician' who could decide games with an action, who Klopp adored and tried until the last moment to convince to stay put...

... can suddenly turn into a mediocre 'beta' or whatever player that is good only for mid-table sides.
Absolutely no football reason...
All the hypotheses put forward here in football terms have failed big time to give a reasonable explanation.

Hence, as I wrote in the past, it's evident in my eyes that we have a case of a psychological block, and the reasons might be many.
We have at least some ground to assume that Messi's stature at the club and on the pitch was unbearable for some, was suffocating their confidence...

Coutinho wouldn't be the first player to fall off, and he won't be the last one. Coutinho showed the same issues for Brazil and Bayern so blaming it on Messi feels a bit cheap.

Maybe the burden of being the 3rd most expensive player in football history simply got to him and once he crumbled under that he could never recover his old confidence. Maybe that's why he was decent at first for us when he didn't play CL, Iniesta was still here, he was still new...and then for the next season when he knew expectations would be sky high he couldn't keep it up.

Even at Liverpool he was always a bit under the radar, they weren't favorites for the longest time, he wasn't a huge star yet etc and that all changed at Barca.

 

[Raketa10]

But when you look at our team, who can score?
1. Depay
2. Griezmann
3. Braithwaite
The end

You should add Fati to that list. He will be ready soon and if he stays healthy we will be well covered in attack. In addition to that, I am more curious to see Demebele play in this faster and more direct team than Coutinho. IMHO our current way of playing will suit him 100%. If he extends his contract and decides to focus on football he could be a much better addition to this team than Cou.

 

[BBZ8800]

Coutinho wouldn't be the first player to fall off, and he won't be the last one. Coutinho showed the same issues for Brazil and Bayern so blaming it on Messi feels a bit cheap.

About Bayern, I won't comment, since Bayern was the best team in the world back then.
It is no shame to be a squad player at CL winners Bayern.

About Brasil, for me, he always played decent.
At least at a WC 2018 and Copa America 2019 when I have followed him since he was Barca's player.

I don't know what you guys expect from him.
If you expect Iniesta's type midfielder who always makes the right decision and almost never loses the ball = Coutinho is way sloppier, but so are 99,9% of top footballers in the world.
If you expect some pacey, tricky winger (LW) in 433 = he is not that guy.

Imo, he is some Rafinha/Denis/Puig type, but way better.
Midfielder who is not too good in defending.
But he is good on the ball, he can bring the ball from deep.
And he has creativity and a sense for shooting and making danger in the attacking third.

He is different to Barca's type of a midfielder in 433, and I can understand why people loved Arthur and why they like Pedri today.
Those guys are way better on the ball and in keeping possession.
But they suck hard in the attacking 3rd.
Those guys are good against strong teams, in tught 50:50 matches, when we don't risk a lot, where we keep possession and when we have SOMEONE else to score and bring 1:0 victories, like Messi, or Ronnie-Etoo in attack.
But since we don't have anyone in attack except Depay, imo we will struggle hard even against lowtable teams to score some goals.
Frenkie-Pedri-Busi won't create enough of danger, assists or shots longterm.

About Cou at Brasil, I don't know. For me he is the boss in their midfield.
He gets deep to take the ball, he plays nice passes, he drives the ball forward like Puig or Frenkie at Ajax.
And what I like the most = he takes a lot of risks in the final third with dribbles, risky passes and lots of shots, which we don't see from Pedri-Frenkie-Busi or classical Barca DNA midfielders.

Check it for yourself, Copa America final 2019, Coutinho vs Peru: 2 shot attempts and 3 shots blocked in the 2nd half.
That is 5 shooting attempts in a final, and in all 3 blocked shots, he created a chance for a shot out of nowhere, by himself.
That is a kind of behavior which we will need now in the absence of Messi = guys with some balls and lots of shooting and dribbling.
He is more chaotic player than classical barca DNA midfielder though. More risks, more shots, more chaos, less possession and certainty.

 

[Porque]

BbZ does have a point that a mentally fit Coutinho can have a role in a Messi-less Barcelona.

But I think that Coutinho is mentally shot here.

That's why you read rumours of loan swap proposals with guys like Auba. So a player coming in mentally fresh here may perform better.

 

[Rory]

There is no football reason to assume that the best player of Liverpool for 4 whole years, after Suarez left, the star of their team, the 'magician' who could decide games with an action, who Klopp adored and tried until the last moment to convince to stay put...

... can suddenly turn into a mediocre 'beta' or whatever player that is good only for mid-table sides.
Absolutely no football reason...
All the hypotheses put forward here in football terms have failed big time to give a reasonable explanation.

Hence, as I wrote in the past, it's evident in my eyes that we have a case of a psychological block, and the reasons might be many.
We have at least some ground to assume that Messi's stature at the club and on the pitch was unbearable for some, was suffocating their confidence...

What did Coutinho win at Liverpool?

Nothing. He thrives when there's no expectations but can't handle it when something is expected of him. Nothing wrong with that, he's just therefore not a barca level player. For instance he'd probably thrive at Leicester or somewhere like that.

 

[BBZ8800]

What did Coutinho win at Liverpool?

Nothing. He thrives when there's no expectations but can't handle it when something is expected of him. Nothing wrong with that, he's just therefore not a barca level player. For instance he'd probably thrive at Leicester or somewhere like that.

Saying that Coutinho hasn't won at Liverpool is similar to saying how Messi won 1 CL in the last 10 years with Barca.

Both teams were bad in their own ways, you could reply.
If that excuse works for Messi, it should work for Cou also.

Further, again, a few posts above users mentioned how he was bad for Brazil.
He won Copa America in 2019 and he was quite good (one of their best players) at WC 2018.
He had a better world cup than both GOAT-debate contenders.
I don't believe that this player could be worse than other current Barca's midfield and attacking options.
** Regarding his shots, I would let him shoot 5 times per match, no biggie. He will score 1 in 10 attempts (or 1 goals in 2 matches), but he wasn't allowed to waste so many shots while Messi was here.
World cup 2018:

 

[MTL_Barca]

About Bayern, I won't comment, since Bayern was the best team in the world back then.
It is no shame to be a squad player at CL winners Bayern.

About Brasil, for me, he always played decent.
At least at a WC 2018 and Copa America 2019 when I have followed him since he was Barca's player.

I don't know what you guys expect from him.
If you expect Iniesta's type midfielder who always makes the right decision and almost never loses the ball = Coutinho is way sloppier, but so are 99,9% of top footballers in the world.
If you expect some pacey, tricky winger (LW) in 433 = he is not that guy.

Imo, he is some Rafinha/Denis/Puig type, but way better.
Midfielder who is not too good in defending.
But he is good on the ball, he can bring the ball from deep.
And he has creativity and a sense for shooting and making danger in the attacking third.

He is different to Barca's type of a midfielder in 433, and I can understand why people loved Arthur and why they like Pedri today.
Those guys are way better on the ball and in keeping possession.
But they suck hard in the attacking 3rd.
Those guys are good against strong teams, in tught 50:50 matches, when we don't risk a lot, where we keep possession and when we have SOMEONE else to score and bring 1:0 victories, like Messi, or Ronnie-Etoo in attack.
But since we don't have anyone in attack except Depay, imo we will struggle hard even against lowtable teams to score some goals.
Frenkie-Pedri-Busi won't create enough of danger, assists or shots longterm.

About Cou at Brasil, I don't know. For me he is the boss in their midfield.
He gets deep to take the ball, he plays nice passes, he drives the ball forward like Puig or Frenkie at Ajax.
And what I like the most = he takes a lot of risks in the final third with dribbles, risky passes and lots of shots, which we don't see from Pedri-Frenkie-Busi or classical Barca DNA midfielders.

Check it for yourself, Copa America final 2019, Coutinho vs Peru: 2 shot attempts and 3 shots blocked in the 2nd half.
That is 5 shooting attempts in a final, and in all 3 blocked shots, he created a chance for a shot out of nowhere, by himself.
That is a kind of behavior which we will need now in the absence of Messi = guys with some balls and lots of shooting and dribbling.
He is more chaotic player than classical barca DNA midfielder though. More risks, more shots, more chaos, less possession and certainty.

I would like Coutinho, if he would still play like that. I feel like he's kinda hard to incorporate in a team (same issue a lot of AMs share nowadays) but his skill set is definitely great if utilized correctly. In theory, because i haven't seen that Coutinho in a long time. Instead i mostly saw a player contributing very little while lacking fundamentals for a midfielder, what resulted in coaches playing him on the wing just for him to show he's also not a winger.

Don't get me wrong, i think everyone would like to see him bring out his Liverpool self again and finally establish himself in the midfield...but i just don't see it.

If we hope for Coutinho we should also hope for Dembele who can finally play RW and maybe benefit from some more direct play or Griezmann who can now roam free in the spaces Messi used to occupy...but i've watched enough Barca these past years to not fall for any of that

But we'll see, it would already be a big success if even just one of them finally comes close to deliver anything close to what their price tag promised.

 

[Rory]

Saying that Coutinho hasn't won at Liverpool is similar to saying how Messi won 1 CL in the last 10 years with Barca.

Both teams were bad in their own ways, you could reply.
If that excuse works for Messi, it should work for Cou also.

Further, again, a few posts above users mentioned how he was bad for Brazil.
He won Copa America in 2019 and he was quite good (one of their best players) at WC 2018.
He had a better world cup than both GOAT-debate contenders.
I don't believe that this player could be worse than other current Barca's midfield and attacking options.
** Regarding his shots, I would let him shoot 5 times per match, no biggie. He will score 1 in 10 attempts (or 1 goals in 2 matches), but he wasn't allowed to waste so many shots while Messi was here.
World cup 2018:

1 UCL in 10 years is correct as of this year only. But even that sort of comparison doesn't wash. Coutinho won 0 at Liverpool. And you're comparing that to a period of time including a treble win and one of the greatest season's of football ever seen. On top of that several leagues and cups etc. Not really a comparison. Coutinho has won a copa america as an important player but that's when Brazil's B and C team could win it. Still some credit for the copa win. Not much credit for anything else though.

He had a better WC 2018 as part of a far superior team. Still missed when it mattered didn't he, when the pressure was on.