Premier League 2022/2023

[JamDav1982]

I meant he came in a time that the team was in total turmoil and we needed to throw away players. He knew he was there just to right the boat a bit.. He had the ungrateful job of correcting the boat.

Or at least he should have known. Basically he should have known this would never be very successful period of his coaching career.

Yes he knew what he was coming into when made coach.

Not sure what relevance that has to what was said.

 

[serghei]

If they get knocked out of CL and EL early two seasons in a row and finish second that is not the progression they should be looking for.

Barca at start of last season had just lost Messi, undermined coach, had likes of Pedri/Araujo out injured. The fact they started poorly doesnt reflect where club was at that time in terms of playong squad and to add 220m to that and where should be now.

Xavi doesnt get to benefit from that shitshow at start of last season to make out 2nd and embarrased in Europe is good enough because of the messi in at that time.. and even then were barely off top four.

Doesnt work like that.

Most teams in crisis didn't even get to play CL. We played it, and got the bad luck of a terrible group + multiple injuries hitting at a bad time. Everyone should take that into consideration, but most pretend context doesn't exist. Inter is not an easy team, and far better than Pot 3 in CL. They almost won the Serie A last year if not for a keeper fucking up in the last games.

I've been over that. If injuries didn't hit and we were knocked out by Inter, it's a bad performance. Even then, us vs Inter is pretty close atm. With injuries over whole defense (basically played with 2nd string defense), Inter were always gonna be hard to beat. And if you add the clear pen in the last minutes in Italy... again, context matters a lot when the margins are small. At 1-0 at home vs Inter, Pique basically lets them score with a monumental fuck-up just like that.

 

[snowy]

no top manager is ever going to last under Five-0 lapopo

dude is known in the community for being a hysterical, shady, over-emotional raging lunatic

wouldn't be surprised if that was a major reason for pep leaving

let's get Tuchel and watch'em fist each other once the honeymoon's over

 

[JamDav1982]

Most teams in crisis didn't even get to play CL. We played it, and got the bad luck of a terrible group + multiple injuries hitting at a bad time. Everyone should take that into consideration, but most pretend context doesn't exist. Inter is not an easy team, and far better than Pot 3 in CL. They almost won the Serie A last year if not for a keeper fucking up in the last games.

You keep going on about injuries and the bad luck of the draw in CL.

As said multiple times.. Inter had injuries and are currently 5th in league.
Bayern were in terrible form and dropping points in league when Barca played them with no injuries.
Chosing to play Pique/Garica CB pairing with Busi lone DM at home to Inter is awful regardless of injuries.

To top it all off Barca would be in pot 1 if Xavi had won the EL and not been battered by likes of Frankfurt.

Xavi has two wins in last 8 European games... Plzn.

That is horrednous and cost Barca tens of millions of Euros at a time cant afford that.

 

[ajnotkeith]

I wonder where Arsenal finished in the first full season of Arteta btw... Considering they didn't make top 4 even in Arteta's 3rd season, pretty terrible stuff most likely.

I checked. He finished 8th.

But Xavi should be sacked because god knows what reason while leading the table in his first season. Gotcha...

Do you know how long it's been since Arsenal won the Prem?

 

[serghei]

You keep going on about injuries and the bad luck of the draw in CL.

As said multiple times.. Inter had injuries and are currently 5th in league.
Bayern were in terrible form and dropping points in league when Barca played them with no injuries.
Chosing to play Pique/Garica CB pairing with Busi lone DM at home to Inter is awful regardless of injuries.

To top it all off Barca would be in pot 1 if Xavi had won the EL and not been battered by likes of Frankfurt.

Xavi has two wins in last 8 European games... Plzn.

That is horrednous and cost Barca tens of millions of Euros at a time cant afford that.

Inter had injuries, but they were not all in the same compartment. Their defense in the tie had likes of Skriniar and De Vrij which is their starting defense basically. We had Araujo, Christensen, Kounde, all out, all 3 central defenders, having to rely on bums like Pique and Garcia.

Can't compare really. Pique retired soon after, and Garcia is on his way out, a sub that barely gets any game time even in Spain national team. Lucho even played a DM in CB not to play Garcia. What are we even talking about here?

 

[JamDav1982]

Inter had injuries, but they were not all in the same compartment. Their defense in the tie had likes of Skriniar and De Vrij which is their starting defense basically. We had Araujo, Christensen, Kounde, all out, all 3 central defenders, having to rely on bums like Pique and Garcia.

Can't compare really.

Inter had injuries to their CF and Barca had injuries to one starting CB in one of the two games.

As said dealing with injuries is part of football all coaches have to deal with even in same position.

For Xavi to then think Busi sole DM and Pique/Garcia CB pairing with Alonso/Roberto either sides was way to go is horrendous.

FDJ, Alba and Balde were all on the bench to improve that line up.

No one 'had to rely on Pique' or put Busi as sole DM on front of them. Xavi chose that.

Brozovic and Lukaku were huge misses for Inter regarldess if both in same area of park or not.

 

[serghei]

Do you know how long it's been since Arsenal won the Prem?

Yes. If they win the PL then Arteta deserves full credit. But he didn't deliver quickly, he took his time. Redcafe is full of ironies and jokes about him being Lego Pep and whatnot, basically keeping his job based on his Pep links.

Now everyone pretends he was great from the get go. Complete bollocks. Managers grow and develop in time just as players do.

 

[jamrock]

It's kinda interesting how the usual suspects using Barcelona dropping out of group of death in the CL as the one big mark against Xavi, ignoring all the clear as day Caveats that happened in that group to make their silly points & also ignore where we are In the league.

It's we are now longer in the CL, full stop, black & white.

a good 3/4 events didn't happen in that group that caused us to be eliminated that were totally out of Xavi's control, all to score points.

And if Barcelona wins the league, it's gonna be, la Liga is the easiest league to win in the history of human everything so that doesn't count, we got knocked out of the CL group stage.

& Yes ten hag is a better coach that xavi at this point, just to get that one out the way.

 

[serghei]

Inter had injuries to their CF and Barca had injuries to one starting CB in one of the two games.

As said dealing with injuries is part of football all coaches have to deal with even in same position.

For Xavi to then think Busi sole DM and Pique/Garcia CB pairing with Alonso/Roberto either sides was way to go is horrendous.

FDJ, Alba and Balde were all on the bench to improve that line up.

No one 'had to rely on Pique' or put Busi as sole DM on front of them. Xavi chose that.

Brozovic and Lukaku were huge misses for Inter regarldess if both in same area of park or not.

The fuck are you talking about?

Araujo, Christensen, and Kounde were all out for the Camp Nou game. We had to play the Camp Nou game with Pique - Garcia defense, which is like our 12th best defense pair or something...

That defense is probably used for the Intercity game today.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yes. If they win the PL then Arteta deserves full credit. But he didn't deliver quickly, he took his time. Redcafe is full of ironies and jokes about him being Lego Pep and whatnot, basically keeping his job based on his Pep links.

Now everyone pretends he was great from the get go. Complete bollocks. Managers grow and develop in time just as players do.

Arteta went into an Arsenal that hadnt won for years and had a relly poor squad by top four EPL standards.

It is not comparable to Xavi.

As said before...

Apply the 'time' argument to Setien, Koeman and EV.

But wont as doenst fit.

 

[Birdy]

Barca shows progression too this season compared to last one. All you have to do is look at the position on the table. From fighting for top 4 to fighting for the title and leading the table.

If anything, Barca is progressing faster with Xavi than Arsenal under Arteta.

The difference is Barca and its fanbase are delusional and expect far too much far too early with not much to show for. They should both ditch the unwarranted arrogance, and get back to working hard to get things done.

Nobody is scared of Barca anymore because Barca is nothing like their previous teams that made opponents shit-scared of playing them.

Dude cut out this crap theory that position on the table of LL shows something, in a league almost always a two horse race
We were 1st under Ernie but were a shitty team and got heavily exposed in Europe
EPL has 6 big teams and the best coaches in the world. Let alone that the bottom half of the EPL table there doesn't give you anything for free, you have to fight for every point

What shows progress is way of playing, and progression in a tactical perspective. After that, titles are gonna come.

Arteta was trusted because there were clear signs of progress
1) He didn't have 3 full seasons at Arsenal before this one, but 2.5 (was put in charge midway through the 19/20 season)
The first full year of Arteta Arsenal was a mess, but even then showed signs by managing to win FA cup against much better opponents in City and Chelsea

2) Since second half of 20/21 season there were signs of progress seen in the way of playing.
Clear identity in the team and trying to do basics correctly. Since then, everything was on improving the basics
If you look at the cumulative EPL talbe since Jan 21 or so, you see ARsenal are 2nd in points only behind City

3) Last season they were clearly better team than Spurs, and we see that this season where Spurs are finding it difficult in CL even vs the likes of Marseille and Sporting. Arsenal deserved that spot and were unlucky to lose it to Spurs

4) This season they might win EPL. But they might lose it. Doesn't say much. The way they play have proven right everyone at their board who trusted Arteta.
Being title contenders in a league that has Pep Klopp Conte ETH, Arab and American money says a lot

Barca is the total opposite
Compare these games we play now with the first games of XAvi in charge (Benfica for CL, Elche, Osasuna etc)
There is minimal progress since then, and if you put the current individuals we bought like Lewa Kounde Raphinia etc in the team that was supposedly at an early stage of development back then, you would get the 'wins' we get now that make you falsely claim that we are progressing

No, we are stagnated actually
And saying that "Barca is progressing faster with Xavi than Arsenal under Arteta" is one of the most stupid things I have heard on this platform

Sort out the basics of your faulty thought process

 

[JamDav1982]

The fuck are you talking about?

Araujo, Christensen, and Kounde were all out for the Camp Nou game. We had to play the Camp Nou game with Pique - Garcia defense, which is like our 12th possible defense pair or something...

That defense is probably used for the Intercity game today.

I literally just discussed the home game and how badly Xavi usd what was available to him with the injuries at home to Inter and how he fucked up another European campaihgn with defecne he chose when had other options.

Keep repeating HAD to play Pique and must think HAD to play midfield of Busi sole DM etc.

The reality is could have gone FDJ in midfield to help Busi or in place of Busi.. Alba or Balde LB, Alonso CB or Balde RB.

Had many options... but opts for Pique/Garcia/Busi triangle of defensive players and full backs of Alonso and Roberto.

Horrendous.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Yes. If they win the PL then Arteta deserves full credit. But he didn't deliver quickly, he took his time. Redcafe is full of ironies and jokes about him being Lego Pep and whatnot, basically keeping his job based on his Pep links.

Now everyone pretends he was great from the get go. Complete bollocks. Managers grow and develop in time just as players do.

Whilst the results Xavi has brought have been concerning in Europe and cup competitions, the main reason I wouldn't give him that time or benefit of the doubt that some other coaches get is because our playstyle and general team direction sucks, to be frank, he's not building much of a project at the moment.

He's keeping 34 year old Busquets as a centerpiece of the team and constructing the whole midfield around him, and our whole offensive production is from a 35 year old with the other attackers contributing little to nothing. None of the young players seem to have grown much under him either. Does it seem like much of a project to you? To me it seems like a win now team that he's built.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Dude cut out this crap theory that position on the table of LL shows something, in a league almost always a two horse race
We were 1st under Ernie but were a shitty team and got heavily exposed in Europe
EPL has 6 big teams and the best coaches in the world. Let alone that the bottom half of the EPL table there doesn't give you anything for free, you have to fight for every point

What shows progress is way of playing, and progression in a tactical perspective. After that, titles are gonna come.

Arteta was trusted because there were clear signs of progress
1) He didn't have 3 full seasons at Arsenal before this one, but 2.5 (was put in charge midway through the 19/20 season)
The first full year of Arteta Arsenal was a mess, but even then showed signs by managing to win FA cup against much better opponents in City and Chelsea

2) Since second half of 20/21 season there were signs of progress seen in the way of playing.
Clear identity in the team and trying to do basics correctly. Since then, everything was on improving the basics
If you look at the cumulative EPL talbe since Jan 21 or so, you see ARsenal are 2nd in points only behind City

3) Last season they were clearly better team than Spurs, and we see that this season where Spurs are finding it difficult in CL even vs the likes of Marseille and Sporting. Arsenal deserved that spot and were unlucky to lose it to Spurs

4) This season they might win EPL. But they might lose it. Doesn't say much. The way they play have proven right everyone at their board who trusted Arteta.
Being title contenders in a league that has Pep Klopp Conte ETH, Arab and American money says a lot

Barca is the total opposite
Compare these games we play now with the first games of XAvi in charge (Benfica for CL, Elche, Osasuna etc)
There is minimal progress since then, and if you put the current individuals we bought like Lewa Kounde Raphinia etc in the team that was supposedly at an early stage of development back then, you would get the 'wins' we get now that make you falsely claim that we are progressing

No, we are stagnated actually
And saying that "Barca is progressing faster with Xavi than Arsenal under Arteta" is one of the most stupid things I have heard on this platform

Sort out the basics of your faulty thought process

Main point for me.

I'm not at all convinced that the better league performance is to do with anything other than LDJ ---> Lewandowski, Braithwaite ---> Dembele, Pique ---> Kounde etc.

Seems natural when the quality of the team increases that much you will see better results. From what we have seen from Xavi tactically it doesn't seem like he had much contribution to it himself.