Quique Setien

[Birdy]

Some of you here really like strong statements, but when it come to backing them with arguments/evidence, well...

Setien IMPROVED the way the team plays compared to EV. Why?

SEtien improved most offensive and defensive categories/metrics
And that's until and including the last game.

Because a few weeks ago, before the 'revolution' of the Amigos against him (which caused a meltdown in terms of the team structure) the underlying numbers were even more in favor of Setien.
This thread here https://twitter.com/barca_natics/status/1272751100068798465 explains why with all the necessary graphs.

So, If you care the least about the integrity of your opinion, you have to refute the above instead of throwing big empty statements like 'OBVIOUSLY Setien is worse than Valverde'
No, he is not unless you can prove so

 

[vegitot]

Some of you here really like strong statements, but when it come to backing them with arguments/evidence, well...

Setien IMPROVED the way the team plays compared to EV. Why?

SEtien improved most offensive and defensive categories/metrics
And that's until and including the last game.

Because a few weeks ago, before the 'revolution' of the Amigos against him (which caused a meltdown in terms of the team structure) the underlying numbers were even more in favor of Setien.
This thread here https://twitter.com/barca_natics/status/1272751100068798465 explains why with all the necessary graphs.

So, If you care the least about the integrity of your opinion, you have to refute the above instead of throwing big empty statements like 'OBVIOUSLY Setien is worse than Valverde'
No, he is not unless you can prove so

Then why bottle 2 points lead and watch RM lift Liga tittle???

Setien is clearly worse. At Barca and overall career and it is not even debetable.

 

[Xaviniesta]

same people still dickriding valverde after he made us the laughing stock of europe. embarassing

 

[El Gato]

So, If you care the least about the integrity of your opinion, you have to refute the above instead of throwing big empty statements like 'OBVIOUSLY Setien is worse than Valverde'
No, he is not unless you can prove so

What's the final chart supposed to show? Other than highlighting Messi has been meh at best in the CL?

All these charts are also only comparing the EV 19/20 autumn, where everyone and their mother knew the season was unlikely to end well for him and he overstayed his welcome. So no use showing Setien improved the numbers. Even Pimienta would probably have marginally better numbers. Kinda like OGS had better numbers than Mourinho and remained pretty shit until they got Fernandes from Sporting.

Sure, Setien is probably better stylistically, but none of this really proves much other than that the team is playing just about at its ceiling, no matter who it is leading the pack.

Guess it serves as some comfort for Setienistas that he's having a better 19/20 than the predecessor who would have been sacked by any normal board rather than the clowns leading yours club.

 

[Tackle]

Are you lot seriously arguing Valverde and Setien are equivalent as coaches?

There is NO evidence that supports this.

Neither are grade A coaches, but Valverde is a B level manager while Setien is a C-.

Valverde's next job will be at the likes of Valencia, Villarreal, Sevilla etc. and he will likely do a fine job there, just like did at Athletic Club. He will be given more freedom at those clubs and won't be limited by untouchable star names or a board that has no interest listening to him.

For Setien it is either back to the farm to tend to the cows or maybe a short-term deal with a club like Alaves or Levante based mostly off the fact Barca hired him in the past.

Setien could not do a better job than Valverde at his lowest point at the club after 2.5 years. There is no argument.

Also @Birdy, those xG stats you keep loving to post are not making the argument Setien has improved the team. Mate, one of a manager's main jobs is to keep his players happy and prepare them for matches. Valverde was much better in this respect and the players had more trust in him. Coaches do not get paid for making great advanced stats.

 

[JamDav1982]

As Ebbe Skovdahl said on Scottish Radio after an Aberdeen game...'Statistics are like miniskirts: They give you good ideas but hide the important things'.

 

[fergus90]

As Ebbe Skovdahl said on Scottish Radio after an Aberdeen game...'Statistics are like miniskirts: They give you good ideas but hide the important things'.

 

[serghei]

We do know something for sure. With this current team, and current conditions Setien gained more points than Valverde after 19 La Liga games. Difference between them is marginal, results show it.

I think BBZ was convinced at some point Setien would get less than 40 points. He got 42 and that's with the veterans creating troubles. Would've got 45 if we didn't treat the Osasuna game like idiots. That's a 90 point league campaign.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

We do know something for sure. With this current team, and current conditions Setien gained more points than Valverde after 19 La Liga games. Difference between them is marginal, results show it.

I think BBZ was convinced at some point Setien would get less than 40 points. He got 42 and that's with the veterans creating troubles. Would've got 45 if we didn't treat the Osasuna game like idiots. That's a 90 point league campaign.

True, I don't think people understand how well Real gained points after Covid. They were perfect. Even Pep teams would struggle vs record like that.

 

[Jakabor]

Setien got more points for Barcelona (42) than Valverde (40) in the 2019/2020 season.
Same amount of matches played.

Again, fuck Valverde and his no control and getting saved by Messi football.
Setien is fine, this league loss is due to Madrids performance. Madrids record in the first 19 games: 11-7-1 and Madrids record since then: 15-1-2.

Fuck Valverde and fuck his nuthuggers.

 

[Tackle]

Won't be sacked now. Pumped a relegation fodder side 5-0 in a meaningless match, but now the likes of MD and SPORT will come out with stories about how the team has regained form just in time for the CL, the players believe they can win again etc. You know, the usual deal from these rags.

 

[KingLeo10]

Won't be sacked now. Pumped a relegation fodder side 5-0 in a meaningless match, but now the likes of MD and SPORT will come out with stories about how the team has regained form just in time for the CL, the players believe they can win again etc. You know, the usual deal from these rags.

Didn't know you were a City fan all this time, mate.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Setien got more points for Barcelona (42) than Valverde (40) in the 2019/2020 season.
Same amount of matches played.

Again, fuck Valverde and his no control and getting saved by Messi football.
Setien is fine, this league loss is due to Madrids performance. Madrids record in the first 19 games: 11-7-1 and Madrids record since then: 15-1-2.

Fuck Valverde and fuck his nuthuggers.

Exactly. He wasn't bad. We just weren't good enough. After Covid is there any team which beats Madrids record? Bayern maybe?

 

[BBZ8800]

Setien got more points for Barcelona (42) than Valverde (40) in the 2019/2020 season.
Same amount of matches played.

Should I even bother to insert some logic here?

Barca and EV played 5 matches without Messi.
Bilbao 1:0
Osasuna 2:2
Granada 2:0, played in the 2nd half, hald time 1:0.
Suarez got injured in the first half of the first round against Bilbao, so Barca played without Messi for 5 rounds and without Messi-Suarez for 3 rounds.

Barca won 7 out of 18 points in the first 5 rounds.
And EV won 33 points in the next 14 matches.
10 wins, 3 draws, 1 defeat.
Which is 2.36 points per game or 89.5 points estimated over 38 rounds.

So, with Messi, EV's team wasn't that bad results wise even in this season.

So, EV with Messi was heading towards a 89.5 point season.
While Setien with Messi was heading towards a 84 point season.

What a shock.

 

[KingLeo10]

This EV v Setien argument is counter-productive. Both are different flavors of shit.

The bigger issue is why we haven't been able to attract A level managers since Pep left. Is it the board? Is it the seniors? Some combination of the two?