Real Madrid (old thread)

[ricknattery]

This is a ridiculous suggestion tbf. There's no way in hell any sane manager will bench a player who can score 50 goals in a season. Cristiano has scored 87 goals in 80 La Liga matches at Madrid (112 in 115 overall), these are pretty incredible numbers. He's undoubtedly one of the greatest goalscoring machines the sport has ever seen.

Cristiano is deservedly immovable, there's no way Higuain (or Benzema for that matter) can match his production. Even if he did nothing else on the pitch (which is not the case) this 1 goal per game ratio would be more than enough reason to make him an indisputable starter. Real Madrid's front line is Ronaldo + 2, no two ways about that.

They can match his production, just let them kick the penalties:
In Liga
Cristiano Ronaldo: 1524 minutes played, 21 goals(7 penalties). A goal every 72 minutes
Benzema: 892 minutes played, 10 goals(0 penalties). A goal every 89 minutes
Higuain: 828 minutes played, 13 goals(o penalties). A goal every 63 minutes

So, it's clear Higuain is a better goalscorer this season(imagine the difference if Higuain could not kick all the penalties, but at least the ones he has earned)
Benzema would be a better goalscorer if he could kick some penalties as well, but he doesn't need to score as much as CR to be ahead of him, his contribution to the game andlink up play are enough for him to bench him
I'm considering the goalscoring aspect, because CR has been reduced to that mainly. His contribution in other aspects in offense is minimal, let alone his deffensive contribution
So you are right, there is no two ways about it, Higuain deserves to be ahead of CR, RM could play as a team actually and they could have a player who is not that useless against the biggest rival

 

[Manuel Traquete]

He could even take 20 shots per game. With his goalscoring record, he should be encouraged to shoot as much as possible. It's no coincidence that Madrid have had their best seasons ever in La Liga in terms of points after Cristiano arrived. He's the ultimate flat track bully, he routinely destroys the "little" teams, which gives Real a lot of points. There's no way Real would be this consistent without Ronaldo.

 

[Manuel Traquete]

They can match his production, just let them kick the penalties:
In Liga
Cristiano Ronaldo: 1524 minutes played, 21 goals(7 penalties). A goal every 72 minutes
Benzema: 892 minutes played, 10 goals(0 penalties). A goal every 89 minutes
Higuain: 828 minutes played, 13 goals(o penalties). A goal every 63 minutes

So, it's clear Higuain is a better goalscorer this season(imagine the difference if Higuain could not kick all the penalties, but at least the ones he has earned)
Benzema would be a better goalscorer if he could kick some penalties as well, but he doesn't need to score as much as CR to be ahead of him, his contribution to the game andlink up play are enough for him to bench him
I'm considering the goalscoring aspect, because CR has been reduced to that mainly. His contribution in other aspects in offense is minimal, let alone his deffensive contribution
So you are right, there is no two ways about it, Higuain deserves to be ahead of CR, RM could play as a team actually and they could have a player who is not that useless against the biggest rival

What's wrong with penalty goals? Ronaldo is probably the best penalty taker in the world (or one of the best), he hasn't missed in a long time, of course that he's the one taking penalties. I'm pretty sure Higuain and Benzema would have missed a few penalties if they had taken all of Madrid's penalties since last season, Ronaldo's reliability from the spot is second to none.

And who cares if he's useless against Barca? The league has 38 games and only two of those are against Barca. Ronaldo does a great job destroying the little teams, as 87 goals in 80 La Liga games clearly show. Benching a player this effective is completely out of the question. Real would be a great team without Ronado, but they wouldn't be able to be as consistent as they've been against non-Barca in La Liga, not even close.

 

[barcelonista]

This is a ridiculous suggestion tbf. There's no way in hell any sane manager will bench a player who can score 50 goals in a season. Cristiano has scored 87 goals in 80 La Liga matches at Madrid (112 in 115 overall), these are pretty incredible numbers. He's undoubtedly one of the greatest goalscoring machines the sport has ever seen.

Cristiano is deservedly immovable, there's no way Higuain (or Benzema for that matter) can match his production. Even if he did nothing else on the pitch (which is not the case) this 1 goal per game ratio would be more than enough reason to make him an indisputable starter. Real Madrid's front line is Ronaldo + 2, no two ways about that.

I don't disagree with you actually. Though, to be fair, I think Higuain has 50 goals a season in him as well. If not 50 than 40, but that doesn't really matter as long as you rack up your goal tally in several 6-0, 7-1, 8-0 trashings, taking every possible penalty and not contributing in games where it counts. SAF hasn't even included Berbatov, the top scorer in the Premier League last season, on the bench in the last CL final. If that isn't proof enough that stats aren't everything, I don't know what is. But as for the stats. Higuain has scored 16 goals so far with 0 penalties in 1330 minutes in all competitions. Ronaldo has scored 18 goals, excluding the enormous amount of 8 penalties he got so far, in 2270 minutes. Ronaldo triumphs over Higuain statistically simply because:

- he played almost twice the minutes Higuain did
- he takes ALL penalties (and 8 PK goals is a huge number since we're only in January, he'll surely get another 10 until the end of the season)
- the team is build around him and not around Higuain

It's a circus. They paid € 94 million for a player because of that Galactico fetish Perez has, when in fact the Higuain-Benzema combination without Ronaldo wouldn't leave them as a worse team. Not in the slightest. If you buy a player for € 94 million but the RM fans here state that Benzema and Di Maria (two € 3x million players) are Real Madrid's best players of the season so far, something is horribly wrong.

 

[Manuel Traquete]

I don't disagree with you actually. Though, to be fair, I think Higuain has 50 goals a season in him as well. If not 50 than 40, but that doesn't really matter as long as you rack up your goal tally in several 6-0, 7-1, 8-0 trashings, taking every possible penalty and not contributing in games where it counts. SAF hasn't even included Berbatov, the top scorer in the Premier League last season, on the bench in the last CL final. If that isn't proof enough that stats aren't everything, I don't know what is. But as for the stats. Higuain has scored 16 goals so far with 0 penalties in 1330 minutes in all competitions. Ronaldo has scored 18 goals, excluding the enormous amount of 8 penalties he got so far, in 2270 minutes. Ronaldo triumphs over Higuain statistically simply because:

- he played almost twice the minutes Higuain did
- he takes ALL penalties (and 8 PK goals is a huge number since we're only in January, he'll surely get another 10 until the end of the season)
- the team is build around him and not around Higuain

It's a circus. They paid € 94 million for a player because of that Galactico fetish Perez has, when in fact the Higuain-Benzema combination without Ronaldo wouldn't leave them as a worse team. Not in the slightest. If you buy a player for € 94 million but the RM fans here state that Benzema and Di Maria (two € 3x million players) are Real Madrid's best players of the season so far, something is horribly wrong.

Hmm Cristiano scored 53 last season, 112 in his last 115 games. Do you really think Higuain can even get close to such production? Very few players in football history can. Ronaldo is a much more complete goalscorer than Higuain. If Berbatov could score at the same rate as Ronaldo, you can be sure he'd have started...

And why should penalty goals be excluded? Ronaldo's great penalty conversion ratio (I think it's 100% in the last two seasons) makes him even more of an asset. Neither Higuain or Benzema would have the same conversion ratio. He's not better than Higuain because he takes all penalties, he takes all penalties because he's better (at taking penalties) than Higuain.

They'd definitely be much worse without Ronaldo. They would not be five points ahead of Barca at this point, no way. Ronaldo is known for systematically destroying the league's minnows. The games against Getafe, Malaga, etc... are games that Madrid struggled to win before Ronaldo arrived. Now they kill those teams with Ronaldo scoring hat tricks (five this season so far).

 

[barcelonista]

It's no coincidence that Madrid have had their best seasons ever in La Liga in terms of points after Cristiano arrived. He's the ultimate flat track bully, he routinely destroys the "little" teams, which gives Real a lot of points. There's no way Real would be this consistent without Ronaldo.

I don't buy this. Just before 2009 / 2010, Real's squad consisted of:

Cannavaro in his mid 30s
Metzelder
Heinze
Gago
Raul in his 30s
Huntelaar
Javi Garcia
van der Vaart
injury prone Robben
Guti in his 30s

and garbage like that.

Real Madrid has become a much better team even without Ronaldo. Since then they added Benzema, Di Maria, Özil, Kaka, Xabi Alonso, Carvalho and the likes of Higuain and Marcelo made huge steps forward as well. Not to talk about the big improvement in the coaching department. The season Real accumulated 96 points, Ronaldo "only" scored 26 league goals (compared to the 40 from last season where they reached 92 points ...). Really not Ronaldo's achievement.

 

[Manuel Traquete]

I don't buy this. Just before 2009 / 2010, Real's squad consisted of:

Cannavaro in his mid 30s
Metzelder
Heinze
Gago
Raul in his 30s
Huntelaar
Javi Garcia
van der Vaart
injury prone Robben
Guti in his 30s

and garbage like that.

Real Madrid has become a much better team even without Ronaldo. Since then they added Benzema, Di Maria, Özil, Kaka, Xabi Alonso, Carvalho and the likes of Higuain and Marcelo made huge steps forward as well. Not to talk about the big improvement in the coaching department. The season Real accumulated 96 points, Ronaldo "only" scored 26 league goals (compared to the 40 from last season where they reached 92 points ...). Really not Ronaldo's achievement.

They were still far superior to every team in the league bar Barca. They only needed someone to routinely kill the small teams, which is where Ronaldo comes in. It's definitely not only Ronaldo's achievements, but it'd be pretty absurd to claim that a player who's scoring as much as Ronaldo is not absolutely decisive.

I believe Ronaldo is generally a very overrated player, there's no way he's the best or second best player in the world as many people seem to believe. But around here he's pretty underrated. He'd start for literally every team in the world, no one can say no to a player who can score 50+ a season. Ask United fan how much they miss his goals...

 

[barcelonista]

Hmm Cristiano scored 53 last season, 112 in his last 115 games. Do you really think Higuain can even get close to such production? Very few players in football history can.

Yes, I honestly think so. Suarez managed 53 goals in 59 games in a season for club and country. Gomez is hitting something like 60 goals in his last 60 games as well currently. Van Persie should have similar numbers, too. And Higuain could do so too if he was made the focal point of Real Madrid's attack. After all, he managed 27 goals in 32 games in 2009 / 2010, did he not? And even now, just being a bench player, he's at 13 goals in 16 games. He can easily hit 40+ goals in a season. Real Madrid would certainly not struggle to kill off small teams with Benzema and Higuain. No way.

 

[jamrock]

I'm 100 percent sure given a run of games Higs could do something very similar

 

[barcelonista]

They were still far superior to every team in the league bar Barca. They only needed someone to routinely kill the small teams, which is where Ronaldo comes in. It's definitely not only Ronaldo's achievements, but it'd be pretty absurd to claim that a player who's scoring as much as Ronaldo is not absolutely decisive.

I believe Ronaldo is generally a very overrated player, there's no way he's the best or second best player in the world as many people seem to believe. But around here he's pretty underrated. He'd start for literally every team in the world, no one can say no to a player who can score 50+ a season. Ask United fan how much they miss his goals...

Look, when Real Madrid had their record season of 96 points, Ronaldo scored only 26 goals in La Liga. Higuain scored more (27, that's only 4 less than what Messi did last season ...). So how can this achievement be down to Ronaldo? It seems like you don't need a player to hit 50+ goals to get a record 96 points in La Liga. Around 30 in the league will suffice and a lot of players are capable of doing this (even Forlan managed this in 2009). Isn't this a fact?

 

[Manuel Traquete]

Yes, I honestly think so. Suarez managed 53 goals in 59 games in a season for club and country. Gomez is hitting something like 60 goals in his last 60 games as well currently. Van Persie should have similar numbers, too. And Higuain could do so too if he was made the focal point of Real Madrid's attack. After all, he managed 27 goals in 32 games in 2009 / 2010, did he not? And even now, just being a bench player, he's at 13 goals in 16 games. He can easily hit 40+ goals in a season. Real Madrid would certainly not struggle to kill off small teams with Benzema and Higuain. No way.

Only Gomez can come close to those numbers over a long stretch of games. Suarez had one great goalscoring season but that was it. There's only one player who has shown he can match Ronaldo's scoring ratio over the years and he wears blaugrana. Higuain scored 29 in 40 in 2009/2010, it was his best season. Mind you, it's a pretty good return, but not Ronaldo-like. Cristiano has already 26 (in 26) and we're still in January.

They'd definitely struggle. Last season they lost two games at home all season (against Gijon and Zaragoza), the common aspect of those two games was that Cristiano didn't play a single minute. This season their only defeat vs non-Barca came at Levante, in a game where Ronaldo didn't start. Over a 38-game season, there's no way they'll be this consistent without Ronaldo.

 

[ricknattery]

What's wrong with penalty goals? Ronaldo is probably the best penalty taker in the world (or one of the best), he hasn't missed in a long time, of course that he's the one taking penalties. I'm pretty sure Higuain and Benzema would have missed a few penalties if they had taken all of Madrid's penalties since last season, Ronaldo's reliability from the spot is second to none.

And who cares if he's useless against Barca? The league has 38 games and only two of those are against Barca. Ronaldo does a great job destroying the little teams, as 87 goals in 80 La Liga games clearly show. Benching a player this effective is completely out of the question. Real would be a great team without Ronado, but they wouldn't be able to be as consistent as they've been against non-Barca in La Liga, not even close.

Nothing wrong with penalties. Higuain is a better goalscorer despite having scored 7 penalties less than CR this season.
Maybe for you benching CR is out of question, I've shown you the facts, he scores that many only because he plays more minutes than the other goalscorer(still cannot reach his efficiency). Besides you are making it sound like if it's something surreal, even the madridistas in here suggest that.
Who cares if he is useless against Barca? The Bernabeu crowd perhaps? Whistling at him ever since his atrocious(one more to add) in last Clasico. The league has 38 games, but in Copa and CL(more than presumably) you need to defeat Barca convincingly(cos' it's 2 games). This games also can affect their performance in Liga and they are pressed towin every game there, since defeating Barca in camp nou it's not something they can rely on.
Madrid was doing great with Juande Ramos, winning 13 games in a row(till they faced Barca). The gap in Spain between the 2 top clubs and the rest is even bigger now, they don't need a poacher who likes to collect goals when Madrid trash the opponent and doens't do much when the game is difficult

 

[Manuel Traquete]

Look, when Real Madrid had their record season of 96 points, Ronaldo scored only 26 goals in La Liga. Higuain scored more (27, that's only 4 less than what Messi did last season ...). So how can this achievement be down to Ronaldo? It seems like you don't need a player to hit 50+ goals to get a record 96 points in La Liga. Around 30 in the league will suffice and a lot of players are capable of doing this (even Forlan managed this in 2009). Isn't this a fact?

You don't, but it helps a lot. Even in that season, where Ronaldo was out injured for a long time, he scored 33 in 35 (a superior ratio than Higuain's 29 in 40) and it was him who kept Real in the race in the final weeks with several decisive goals.

 

[barcelonista]

Only Gomez can come close to those numbers over a long stretch of games. Suarez had one great goalscoring season but that was it. There's only one player who has shown he can match Ronaldo's scoring ratio over the years and he wears blaugrana. Higuain scored 29 in 40 in 2009/2010, it was his best season. Mind you, it's a pretty good return, but not Ronaldo-like. Cristiano has already 26 (in 26) and we're still in January.

They'd definitely struggle. Last season they lost two games at home all season (against Gijon and Zaragoza), the common aspect of those two games was that Cristiano didn't play a single minute. This season their only defeat vs non-Barca came at Levante, in a game where Ronaldo didn't start. Over a 38-game season, there's no way they'll be this consistent without Ronaldo.

Those statistics are a bit flawed. They lost those games only towards the end of last season when we were like 7 points ahead of them and the league was well and truly over. Also Benzema was shit and Higuain just came back from a serious injury last season, so yes, LAST season they were a bit Ronaldo dependant (hence why they had to loan Adebayor), but that's not their general state. They've also won several games without Ronaldo and comfortably as well. This season they have Benzema and Higuain scoring almost every game. No way are they Ronaldo dependant. We are more dependant on Messi to be fair. We don't have anyone to score close to 30 goals in the league apart from Messi.

That ONE game against Levante this season doesn't prove much by the way. They also dropped 2 points against Racing Santander when Ronaldo DID start. It was the time when they had to organise a BBQ to show that there was no disharmony in their team.

 

[ricknattery]

Over a 38-game season, there's no way they'll be this consistent without Ronaldo.

They have earned more points than ever before with CR not being the main goalscorer, Higuain was
They won 13 games in a row with Juande Ramos when CR wasn't in RM

Maybe the reason for this many points is not Ronaldo but the gap between the 2 best clubs in Spain and the rest?