wenger will not break a contract,and never has
they drew 2-2 at old trafford and lost 3-1 in the bernabeu.
this was a team with an average age of 21/22 competing in their first european campaign. AGAINST the wishes of the national fa.
it's always difficult to say "what if" but to dismiss the babes as standing no chance of toppling madrid is both insensitive and tbh quite ignorant. just because they're from the land of overhype, doesn't mean they weren't actually made of the right stuff.
thanks Meta, i agree about england's tendency towards hyperbole,but from
everything i've read,and there are plenty of testimonies about the babes from non english people,they might well have been the team everyone
thought they might.
people say england
would have won the wc in 58,and with a fair few babes in the team,would've stood half a chance for the next 2 as well.
plus,jimmy murphy,sir matt's number 2,took wales to their only wc in 58 too,losing in the 1/4s to brazil,so even the support staff was top notch (murphy scouted and coached and was largely responsible for the discovery of most of the babes)
/\ all of which is irrelevant (before someone pulls me on it) and conjecture,but things
might have been so different. :sad2:
this is classic beast condescension.
you do realise united won a european title in the 60's right? the golden era of football? they're not "new" to europe. in fact they're older in europe than liverpool and juve who didn't get success 'til the 70's and 80's. but anyway...
your argument is fallacious. it's got nothing to do with how many CL's you win. barca and united won't win a couple more CL's and then realise "OH HANG ON! WINNING IN EUROPE IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN WINNING AT HOME! LET'S DO THAT!"
until 11 years ago european appearances went hand-in-hand with domestic league wins. you couldn't get one without the other, and getting league wins ensured a near-constant presence in europe. to real madrid, league success (of which they had a fuckton between '66 and '98) became the norm and european success became this elusive holy grail. you always want what you can't have.
every team wants the european cup, teams like barca and united definitely want more success in europe. but they also understand the value of being champions of your own country, the pride one takes in that status. ask eddy how much being champion of your country means. it's a massive achievement. to quote pep "winning the league was the most important because it says that you are the best team."
liverpool fans all want the league, they have for ages. this "focus" on the champions league is only because apart from this season they're usually out of the title race by january so have nothing else to play for. inter look to europe NOW because they're confirmed domestic kings and want to climb the other mountain that has eluded them. had you asked them how much winning the scudetto mattered BEFORE they had done it for the first time in ages, the answer would have been a fucking lot. I can't explain milan. I don't think anyone can. berlusconi is a rat.
real madrid undervalue domestic success because of the arrogant notion that "we can always win another liga" - they have had so much domestic success they don't appreciate it anymore. they take it for granted (juve are the same, well they were before calciopoli). even now you have a potentially world-class manager in fabio capello shunted out of the door because he couldn't deliver in europe. to me that's not something to state proudly, it's fucking shambolic and why, outside of madridistas, no one really likes your club.
a good title drought and you'll soon be changing your tune.
i'm starting to think that i post when i'm asleep Meta,are you the asleep me?cos that's everything i'd've said if you hadn't beat me to it.
the "outlandish" suggestion of a title free run for real is being sneered at in exactly the same way that liverpool fans would've done in 1990 (when they last won one
) as it would've been by united fans in 1967 if you told them it's be 1993 before they won another.
i KNOW that if real look like there's trouble ahead they can just sell a car park or something for half a billion to the "local council" but it's just no guarantee anymore.
plus,the lack of success will/would/might eventually see their star wane.
(even ronaldo must see that,footballistically he'd be taking a step down/backwards in his career now,if he were to move to madrid) and this will only get worse if the doomsday scenario were to play out.
winning one CL is not enough to be considered a European power otherwise Steaua is one.. lol so no neither N. Forest are one nor Man U (back then ) or Celtic are one..
Man U started to realize the glamor of Europe after the 99 one and now more then ever..
you have to have a constant record in Europe to be considered one.. back in 06 it was all u wish for..u will still be second in command in the catch up game if u win this year your priority will be totally different
and no Mr. Ignorant we did have a title drought for 4 years and it wasn't enough to keep Capello just cause he won it..
you support both Man U & Barca so it's hard for you to understand .. we are not playing catch up with anyone so our priorities are different .. mainly Liverpool,Milan & us can understand so with respect to your point of view it's totally inaccurate
it's not about "considering yourself a european power" though Beast,and it's not totally about the amount of times it's won (that just marks you out as the most successful at winning it) it's about a feeling that fans of ANY club are allowed to have about the best club trophy in the world,and the winning of it,
as well as memories associated with it.
i,for example,love it for the ajax team,the red star belgrade team with savicevic et al
(his performance at ot in the super cup in this game) [YOUTUBE]3DigDkqVUIA[/YOUTUBE] is the one of the greatest performances from an opponent i've ever seen,especially considering the conditions.
firstly, I do enjoy debating with you so don't take anythin' too personal. :beer2:
again, ask liverpool fans about what they'd rather win.
you've gotten used to domestic success so you don't appreciate it as the barometer of true class and greatness.
4 years is not a drought. I meant something like 10 years, maybe more. like with liverpool.
it's the fact that people believe they KNOW that it's not ever gonna go wrong that makes it hard to accept that it might.imo.
Metaphysical, Madrid's name goes hand in hand with Europe. No other team gets the same focus as much as Real Madrid in Europe when we crash because we are known for it having the most wins.
Ten year league drought? That is nonsense. No such thing
ask a scouser if it's nonsense.
and your (yearly) crashing out early has only raised eyebrows recently because it's reminded us that you were
actually in it,so little has been your threat of late......