Ronald Koeman
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Bobo32
Senior Member
Most great coaches were also great, or at least good, players.
There are many exceptions of course, but the percentage for great players becoming great coaches is infinitely greater than the percentage for non-great players becoming great coaches...
Joan
Well-known member
Knowing Chelsea, I wouldn't be surprised they sacked Tuchel if he failed to win the league.
serghei
Senior Member
One of the most important thinks that we lack in possession under Koeman, well captured here in City vs Arsenal. This is like the opposite of what happened under EV, and what is happening under Koeman a lot too.
So, the opponent goes narrow in the middle, hands out the wings (lol, they fucking know we have no one of note there since Neymar went), and under EV and Koeman that team basically tries to build attacks often in the less crowded areas, and often with slow players. That's already giving up the fight for control in the centerfield zones, the most important area of the game, the one which is said to often decide who wins a game of football.
We give up the fight for control there way too easily, even against non-elite sides. All it takes to stifle our center play is to have some decent players applying some proper marking. Even some teams like Levante or Celta can do it. If they can do that while also pushing forward to apply some pressure (like Bilbao) we're done. That's it. It's like our players don't know any moves and drills to beat that.
A big cause of that is because the managers aren't good enough to implement overloads in small spaces (look how many City players are in that square in order to tackle Arsenal's density; they have technique, they have tactics properly set up, they have numbers -> they dominate and control the midfield), something which takes a lot of practice in training sessions. It's either that or their "philosophy" is different, even though in most elite managers (Pep, Tuchel, and Naggelsmann as well, all of those who cited Pep's Barca as major inspiration basically) it's a major element in possession. Because it allows you to gain control in areas which are key for the defensive stability of the opponent, and it clears the wings, making passes there potentially very dangerous surprise switches. This is how not-so-great speedsters can cause problems on the wings. Simply pass them the ball when in space. Bernardo plays wing at City but he's the opposite of a fast player. Gundogan often finds himself in wing positions and as well, he's a slow player too. But he won't be passed to when wide unless in enough space to make a difference. At Barca, if these players would play wide, they would be passed to even if they were 1 vs 2 and they would be expected to turn into peak Robben and leave both for dead.
It's hilarious. We have amateurish tactics compared with the best sides, and we expect the players to individually solve almost everything. We gain very little from proper management, while the elite sides gain a massive advantage.
Those sorts of automatisms don't come easy. But the frustrating part is that in La Masia we are actually teaching our players how to do this, as a foundation and a big part of our "juego de posicion" style. Only to find that in the first team, the managers make us play something else, something more static and conservative. It's just disappointing. What we are playing makes sense only if we can build a galactic team. Like Lucho's Barca. Pretty standard stuff, nothing too complicated, but elite players made it work like a charm. Now that it's clear we won't be doing that for a good while, we need a return to basics. La Masia, our style, advanced tactics being brought back, the whole lot. Or hope Depay and Dembele will turn into Messi and Ronaldinho. Maybe Braithwaite will bang in goals like Eto'o or Suarez. Or that we'll get Haaland who will.
Haven't seen pictures like that at Barca in years and years. Even though Ajax and Barca fucking coined that stuff at club level.
So, the opponent goes narrow in the middle, hands out the wings (lol, they fucking know we have no one of note there since Neymar went), and under EV and Koeman that team basically tries to build attacks often in the less crowded areas, and often with slow players. That's already giving up the fight for control in the centerfield zones, the most important area of the game, the one which is said to often decide who wins a game of football.
We give up the fight for control there way too easily, even against non-elite sides. All it takes to stifle our center play is to have some decent players applying some proper marking. Even some teams like Levante or Celta can do it. If they can do that while also pushing forward to apply some pressure (like Bilbao) we're done. That's it. It's like our players don't know any moves and drills to beat that.
A big cause of that is because the managers aren't good enough to implement overloads in small spaces (look how many City players are in that square in order to tackle Arsenal's density; they have technique, they have tactics properly set up, they have numbers -> they dominate and control the midfield), something which takes a lot of practice in training sessions. It's either that or their "philosophy" is different, even though in most elite managers (Pep, Tuchel, and Naggelsmann as well, all of those who cited Pep's Barca as major inspiration basically) it's a major element in possession. Because it allows you to gain control in areas which are key for the defensive stability of the opponent, and it clears the wings, making passes there potentially very dangerous surprise switches. This is how not-so-great speedsters can cause problems on the wings. Simply pass them the ball when in space. Bernardo plays wing at City but he's the opposite of a fast player. Gundogan often finds himself in wing positions and as well, he's a slow player too. But he won't be passed to when wide unless in enough space to make a difference. At Barca, if these players would play wide, they would be passed to even if they were 1 vs 2 and they would be expected to turn into peak Robben and leave both for dead.
It's hilarious. We have amateurish tactics compared with the best sides, and we expect the players to individually solve almost everything. We gain very little from proper management, while the elite sides gain a massive advantage.Those sorts of automatisms don't come easy. But the frustrating part is that in La Masia we are actually teaching our players how to do this, as a foundation and a big part of our "juego de posicion" style. Only to find that in the first team, the managers make us play something else, something more static and conservative. It's just disappointing. What we are playing makes sense only if we can build a galactic team. Like Lucho's Barca. Pretty standard stuff, nothing too complicated, but elite players made it work like a charm. Now that it's clear we won't be doing that for a good while, we need a return to basics. La Masia, our style, advanced tactics being brought back, the whole lot. Or hope Depay and Dembele will turn into Messi and Ronaldinho. Maybe Braithwaite will bang in goals like Eto'o or Suarez. Or that we'll get Haaland who will.
Haven't seen pictures like that at Barca in years and years. Even though Ajax and Barca fucking coined that stuff at club level.
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Barcilliant
Senior Member
Koeman was in a different class to Pep as a player. Pep was very good Koeman was great.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
Lucho was a better player than Pep. I like Lucho as a person better too. Lucho speaks his mind while Pep is always speaking in riddles.
Only a few great players became great managers though .. Cruyff obviously.
Look at Jose , Fergie , Klopp and Wenger ... all useless players
Bobo32
Senior Member
Yeah there you have some of the exceptions, and even then Fergie won the scottish pichichi and Klopp at least played 300+ games for Mainz, whatever you make of that.
Zidane, Pep, Simeone, Ancelotti, Conte, Heynckes, Luis Enrique, Pochettino - a quick list of great players+managers just by thinking about recent CL finalists.
There are many great players that do not become a Cruyff or a Pep as a manager, but infinitely more who weren't great players and do not become a Sacchi or a Mourinho.
Well after sleeping I see your point, you rather want unknown people to embarrass themselves than your former favourite players, fair enough.
Yeah .. maybe that?s if really .
I hated seeing Glen Hoddle being mocked - ironically he was a fabulous player and a great manager but his downfall was his quirky thinking ..
behindbrowneyes
Well-known member
"I don't think it's good to talk about individuals," Koeman said in a press conference on Saturday when asked about Umtiti.
"The club know what I want and who I want to keep working with. But I have always said, I respect the players with contracts.
"Everyone knows perfectly well who we count on in this squad and who will have a hard time playing games. For some players, it's very complicated and it's not good for them or for us.
"If we have all our players back, we are going to have 31, 32 players ... it's impossible to work with that many. How can a coach manage 32 players? I've done all my coaching courses but not with 32 players!"*
"The club know what I want and who I want to keep working with. But I have always said, I respect the players with contracts.
"Everyone knows perfectly well who we count on in this squad and who will have a hard time playing games. For some players, it's very complicated and it's not good for them or for us.
"If we have all our players back, we are going to have 31, 32 players ... it's impossible to work with that many. How can a coach manage 32 players? I've done all my coaching courses but not with 32 players!"*
Well, 15-16 is the norm (they usually eat up 90%+ of minutes). Nagelsmann explained it pretty well once.
Squad of 21-25 to make up the numbers in training.
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khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Pep and Crujif said before they prefer smaller squads than 25, that 20-22 is the best number to work with in order to be able to work with each player properly.
serghei
Senior Member
I bet he does. With the physical preparation of Bayern... Put up a Goretzka picture and put one of Busi next to it and compare.
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