Sandro Ramirez
- Thread starter Deco 20
- Start date
CatalinR10
Senior Member
Blaugrana Bull
HiiiPoWeR
"Obviously".
I also think that Munir is more versatile, better on the ball and probably has a higher ceiling which would make him more talented but Sandro is no scrub. He has scored a crucial league goal against Villarreal and has proven that he can function as our #9 because of his physicality and poacher qualities while being solid in build-up.
If we keep our current formation, Sandro would be more useful as a Suarez sub.
I also think that Munir is more versatile, better on the ball and probably has a higher ceiling which would make him more talented but Sandro is no scrub. He has scored a crucial league goal against Villarreal and has proven that he can function as our #9 because of his physicality and poacher qualities while being solid in build-up.
If we keep our current formation, Sandro would be more useful as a Suarez sub.
Zinedinho
New member
I prefer Sandro right now, but I see Munir as a more gifted player, with more potential to develop.
Also, there's one thing in which Adama is much, much, much better than Deulofeu: he defends like a beast. Other than that, the worst thing about him is his underdeveloped footballing IQ.
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Adama doesn't even defend that much. It's grossly exaggerated how much Adama will track back. Most of the time poor Palencia is completely isolated no matter who Vinyals spaghetti's onto the RW. And literally every single other aspect of Adama's game is nowhere near Deulofeu's level, so there's that, too.
Bran the Greenseer
Well-known member
He's faster and stronger. Thats it though.
Oh i no im a toon fan lol we should never have hounded pardew out
ceefoo
New member
It's mildly facetious to claim we were "lucky" to bring through those great players from La Masia into the first team over the last 12 years. I believe you create your own luck. To use an example; just look at what the Belgium National Team has done over the past 15 years. They weren't even on the footballing map (sorry Belgian culés, it's meant as a back-handed compliment). They undertook a root and branch reconstruction of their entire football set-up, and now they are reaping the rewards.
Our biggest problem seems to be bridging the gap between the 'B' Team and the 'A' Team. If our first team was just a mediocre, mid-table La Liga team, it wouldn't be that difficult. But this current Barca is in the top 3 teams in the world, so the standards and expectations of any canteranos is set exceptionally high. Many of the players mentioned possess the talent to have a successful career in a category 'A' football league, but as Zinedine Zidane said: "Talent alone is not enough". The mentality of a player is an attribute that often gets overlooked. A good test is to send the player out on loan when he has outgrown the 'B' team. But choosing the right club for him is the tricky part.
It is much harder for Barca 'B' players to succeed in the 'A' team because Barcelona is unique and unlike any other club. It's very difficult identifying a suitable club in which to loan, that has a similar philosophy, appropriate standard, with a coach that will trust and develop the player. I think this is the area where we have been falling short in recent years.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
What great players have come through La Masia in last 12 years though?
Messi but he is not down to coaching alone an in a lot of interviews, books etc they say he was very much and individual and did his own things as a young player.
Cesc, Pique left and developed at other clubs before coming back while Pedro and Busquets arrived at a later age. I think Busi was 17 and Pedro 18/19.
None of these players were the product of some youth programme from early age to first team football.
Players coming through from an early age in Masia to first team starter has not really happened since Messi and he is a unique case.
Bran the Greenseer
Well-known member
thiagoooooooooooooooo
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Yes, everything you said is true.
But sometimes you just "pull" a Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta.
And on other seasons you get players with huge mental or some other bugs, like Deulo, Adama etc.
You need both some natural talent, then good coaches, a lot of hard work from a player and A-team coach who will believe in those players.
Even though I will go to extremes now, when you "pull" a young Messi from your academy, no matter how poor your coaches are, he will still be a raw diamond, even with average coaches, average regimes and everything.
But when you "pull" guys like Sergi Roberto (even though he is a good player), he will never be a new Xavi, and not to mention a new Messi.
Also, I think that people are overestimating our coaches and La Masia.
When people say: the current board and coaching stuff is so bad, they have ruined our La Masia gems.
Well then, even our presidents Nunez from 90's, Gaspart from early 00's and Laporta to some extent, were also very poor in that era (or equally as bad as the current board), because talents from those eras were more or less the same as like in the last 2-3 years.
Again, during our whole history, we were never THAT good team regarding developing young players.
That is a modern myth created in Pep's era when we had that Golden generation.
I remember watching Barca's matches in 90's or in early 00's, and reading articles, and more or less, NO ONE ever mentioned "La Masia" and how Barca is famous or awesome in developing young players. I was a Barca fan, and I had no idea what is actually La Masia.
Back then, teams like Atletico, Valencia, Deportivo, Bilbao, and especially Real Madrid were considered as teams who are good in developing youth players.
Barca was nowhere near the top.
And then suddenly, lately, you can read everywhere how La Masia is a pure gold and how we are extremely special in developing young players etc etc, as if we have some sort of a magic formula for producing new talents.
That is again just an example of revisionism and a modern myth.
If during the last 50 years, we had 45 Seasons with poor/average youth development.
And we had 5 years with a world class development, then:
1. are we really that awesome since always?
2. or we were just a normal/average club in terms of developing players for 45 years, and then we had a perfect short era when we were blessed with an insane number of young talents, good coaches of youth teams and a perfect coach (Pep mostly) who pushed all those players into A-team?
We are "taking" that golden era as some sort of a standard for La Masia's quality, while again, it was just like winning on a lottery.
Happened once in 100 years, and it won't repeat too soon, imo.
Man. Utd. was hailed as the best team in the world for developing young players in the 90's, for the same reason as Barca today.
They were extremely lucky with one generation, when for some reason, they "created" a few world talents in the same period.
Those were:
1. David Beckham
2. Paul Scholes
3. Ryan Giggs
4. Gary Neville
5. Phil Neville
6. Nicky Butt
7. Wes Brown
= and those players were a core of the team that won tons of EPL titles and a Champions league in 1999.
In those days, every newspaper in the world was saying: "Man. Utd has the best youth academy in the world."
-- and whenever there was some new youth gem in the world, people were advising: Go to Man utd, they will develop you into a world class player, they have the best academy.
But now, 15 years later, what happened?
How many world class players Man. Utd produced at all since late 90's?
= almost nothing
And now, I would like to ask the same question, because the story is somewhat similar to Barca's La Masia story:
1. Was Man utd's youth academy THAT good for 50 YEARS, and are their methods that good and godlike, compared to other teams?
2. or, they just had a luck with 5-6 awesome players "born" in the 3-4 years span, and then, with right youth coaches and a A-team coach who believed in them, they created their golden generation?
= but... before you reply: They had an awesome A team coach who believed in them, so we should believe in our players like Deulo, Adama etc.
-- well, Ferguson created Beckham, Giggs and Scholes, and in the next 15 years, he tried to create new players (since he obviously knows the recipe how to create a world class player), but he failed
-- so, imo, obviously the problem WASN'T with A-team coach or with youth coaches
= the problem was that they didn't have any new natural, extraordinary talents "born" anymore
So again, we are assuming that the board and youth coaches are guilty for La Masia dry spell currently.
But again, La Masia was as equally as poor as today for the last 50 years (except in that golden era), plus, famous Man Utd who were hailed the same as we are today, experienced the same problem in the last 15 years.
So, yes, youth coaches/system and A-team coach are important.
But without some extraordinary/natural talents like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Beckham, Scholes, Giggs=youth coaches can't do too much.
We will have to accept that Sandro, Adama, Dongou and other guys are just NOT the next Xavi or Beckham.
Youth coaches/system/planning may be weaker today, but it can't be ONLY their fault.
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ceefoo
New member
Yeah, I agree that it comes down to the high quality of youth players and coaches combined to produce such gems.
Like I said; If the likes of Barcelona and Manchester United were mediocre, mid-table clubs, then they would be bringing through plenty of players through their academies, because they would have the required standard of talent in their ranks for that level of football.
Would the likes of Pedro, Busquets, Thiago, Bartra, Montoya, S. Roberto, Alba, Rafinha, JDS, Deulofeu, Bojan, Cuenca, Tello, Jeffren, Fontas, Muniesa etc. have come through, had Pep & Tito not been around facilitate their development?I suspect that most of these guys would have successful careers regardless. But what Pep & Tito did, bravely and crucially, was trust and gave them the opportunity to fail. Their coaching made a difference too. Even the most talented young footballer needs his coach to believe in him and bring out his individual character, allowing him to express himself without fear of reprimand.
You are never going to be able to train a player to become a "Messi", this much I concede. "Messi's" are born, not coached into being. But with a supportive coaching structure and creating the ideal environment, a young talent can maximise his potential.
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