Transfers and Rumours - old thread

[darthvader7888]

Varane needed a season and a half because coming from a 2nd division team in France, he was relatively unknown. He impressed Mourinho consistently and got more trust but ultimately exploded in his performance vs Barca. Ever since then the only problem he's had has been playing alongside Pepe.

Marquinhos has already shined in a Roma team which had to bear with shit defensive tactics for a good portion of the year. He's known, he's consistent, and he's already broken out as a player, so he doesn't need as much time to integrate as Varane did at RM. Marquinhos doesn't necessarily have to be undisputed permanent starter. Masch works in most smaller games. Marquinhos can play a great deal of games ranging from small teams to midtable and even some big games. Puyol can be saved for the big games to provide his leadership presence. As the years go by and Puyol eventually retires, Marquinhos will be accumulated enough to handle all the biggest of games. This isn't even including the fact that we have Bartra as another backup. All of these players vying for one CB spot is definitely enough. Also, consider that a majority of our defensive problems can be fixed with tactical changes, not just spending right and left for transfers.

I'm afraid we can't rely on Puyol any more, since he's old, slow (meaning him + Pique doesn't work nearly as well as it used to), not as good as he used to be and injury prone. We need to get someone we can rely on for big games. Who knows though, maybe the first half of the season could be enough for Marquinhos to become that CB we can rely on for big games. If Puyol gets injured (more likely than not, he will) for a CL knockout stage game and we don't have someone we can rely on for big games, we're screwed.

As for your point about tactics, our defensive problems are partially tactical (lack of pressing, etc), but it's a personnel issue as well. Puyol's old, slow, not what he used to be and injury-prone (like I already stated), Masch is not a CB (yes, we can rely on him for small games, but not for big ones), and Pique's slow, a bit error-prone, and inconsistent (though I think getting him the right partner could really help that). It can be argued that we don't have a single world-class CB.

 

[DonAndres]

I'm afraid we can't rely on Puyol any more, since he's old, slow (meaning him + Pique doesn't work nearly as well as it used to), not as good as he used to be and injury prone. We need to get someone we can rely on for big games. Who knows though, maybe the first half of the season could be enough for Marquinhos to become that CB we can rely on for big games. If Puyol gets injured (more likely than not, he will) for a CL knockout stage game and we don't have someone we can rely on for big games, we're screwed.

As for your point about tactics, our defensive problems are partially tactical, but it's a personnel issue as well. Puyol's old, slow, not what he used to be and injury-prone (like I already stated), Masch is not a CB (yes, we can rely on him for small games, but not for big ones), and Pique's slow, a bit error-prone, and inconsistent (though I think getting him the right partner could really help that). It can be argued that we don't have a single world-class CB.

I doubt injury issues will be a huge problem for Puyol if we save him for only the most important games. He's slower but his leadership organizes the entire defense which is better than anything speed could provide.

I'd argue that our team problems are 75% tactical. It's not always about the players in defense, but the contribution of the players around them as well. When Bayern played us and when they got dispossessed, their forwards became their first line of defense, then the midfield covered the defense immensely as well. Can we say the same for Barca? Hardly. And it's not that Bayern players even worked that hard, that's the genius of Heynckes. They played a false pressing game where all they did was jockey and close down passing space in front of our back line so that their defenders could have time to recuperate and get back into position. They worked smart, not hard and ultimately blocked space to do anything but pass around the back line without ability to go forward. If Barca do that, we'll see a MUCH less porous defense, we'll have time to recuperate before counterattacks, and we'd reduce the opposition to being our bitch.

 

[DennyCrane]

To anyone who watches Schalke, how is Kriakos Papadopoulous developing?

Difficult to say, the Papa is/was injured for half a year now which might turn out to be a massive setback. Other than that, from what I've seen so far he's a rock-solid no bullshit defender, great in the air and definitely not slow for a guy of his figure. He improved a lot on his positioning and can organize a defense as well. His passing and match-opening is somewhat mediocre, but hey, the guy is only 21 so there's a lot of time for improving this too.

With Schalke now buying Santana (yet another Dortmund betrayal) and putting him to the top-spots in the wage-hierarchy, I see Papa being available in the market soon. All things considered, the price range should be somewhere between 12-15 mil EUR. If it weren't for his injury, I'd buy the player without batting an eye.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Difficult to say, the Papa is/was injured for half a year now which might turn out to be a massive setback. Other than that, from what I've seen so far he's a rock-solid no bullshit defender, great in the air and definitely not slow for a guy of his figure. He improved a lot on his positioning and can organize a defense as well. His passing and match-opening is somewhat mediocre, but hey, the guy is only 21 so there's a lot of time for improving this too.

With Schalke now buying Santana (yet another Dortmund betrayal) and putting him to the top-spots in the wage-hierarchy, I see Papa being available in the market soon. All things considered, the price range should be somewhere between 12-15 mil EUR. If it weren't for his injury, I'd buy the player without batting an eye.

Really?aerial challenges looked like his worst trade for me tbh ,his price is already bigger btw with both Liverpool& Man city ready to pay around 20M
but I agree he is very good young player and should be one of our options

 

[darthvader7888]

I doubt injury issues will be a huge problem for Puyol if we save him for only the most important games. He's slower but his leadership organizes the entire defense which is better than anything speed could provide.

His leadership is important, no doubt about that, but the lack of pace with a Pique/Puyol pairing is a problem, especially considering we play a high line. It's part of why we've been so shitty at defending counter-attacks this season. Don't get me wrong though, I think Puyol can be a great 3rd choice CB, but I don't think we can rely on him as the starter any more.

Again, tactics are a big part of it, but the issue of the defense is a personnel issue as well. For reasons I've already stated, Pique, Puyol, Masch and Bartra aren't enough. Will those 4 + Marquinhos be enough? If we can rely on Marquinhos for big games, at least by the time the first half of the season is up, and a partnership between him and Pique works out, probably. My point is though, you're underestimating the personnel issue in our defense.

You're right that the problems in the other areas of the team are mostly tactical though. I'd say the problems in attack are 60-75% tactical. The problems in midfield (which we mainly saw against Bayern) are 100% tactical, our midfield has the best midfielder and the best CDM in the world. Not to mention Xavi's still a great midfielder, despite his age (though he really needs to be played less).

 

[DonAndres]

His leadership is important, no doubt about that, but the lack of pace with a Pique/Puyol pairing is a problem, especially considering we play a high line. It's part of why we've been so shitty at defending counter-attacks this season. Don't get me wrong though, I think Puyol can be a great 3rd choice CB, but I don't think we can rely on him as the starter any more.

Again, tactics are a big part of it, but the issue of the defense is a personnel issue as well. For reasons I've already stated, Pique, Puyol, Masch and Bartra aren't enough. Will those 4 + Marquinhos be enough? If we can rely on Marquinhos for big games, at least by the time the first half of the season is up, and a partnership between him and Pique works out, yes. My point is though, you're underestimating the personnel issue in our defense.

You're right that the problems in the other areas of the team are mostly tactical though. I'd say the problems in attack are 60-75% tactical. The problems in midfield (which we mainly saw against Bayern) are 100% tactical, our midfield has the best midfielder and the best CDM in the world. Not to mention Xavi's still a great midfielder, despite his age (though he really needs to be played less).

The only true personnel problem I see is depth. With a pressing game our defense will have far less problems in quick counterattacks and will have to deal with less. Bayern's defenders had absolutely nothing to do, except for when Messi was the one sparking the attack (which was rare considering how little he got the ball). Playing the style we do, defense isn't always about the defenders and attack isn't always about the attackers. The only thing buying an overpriced defender would do is satisfy some fans but still get wrecked in counterattacking situations where opposition players have immense space and options. Player for player, it wouldn't make a difference aside from the 40 million down the drain to fix a problem that has a completely different set of needs. If we focused on it tactically, our defenders wouldn't be dealing with impossible to defend situations and we wouldn't collapse nearly as much. There would be less space for the opposition to work in, giving an advantage to our players that would make even Mascherano seem like a world class CB with the easiness of the job. You continuously say that they are lacking in ability to defend and that we lack in world class personnel, but fix the system and our defenders themselves would look much better and composed as well.

A defensive transfer should focus on fixing the depth side of things. We need a talented, long term solution who can assume a leadership role in the future and plays the stopper-style that we lack right now.

 

[Mitchell1978]

I heard today that Vermaelen can leave Arsenal for just 6 million € (he cost them twice as much). Shure Vermaelen isn't the ultimate answer for barça but at that price.. we could use some depht in defence.

 

[Cule4life]

I heard today that Vermaelen can leave Arsenal for just 6 million € (he cost them twice as much). Shure Vermaelen isn't the ultimate answer for barça but at that price.. we could use some depht in defence.

You cant win the CL with Arsenal rejects

 

[darthvader7888]

You cant win the CL with Arsenal rejects

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Semi-Neutral]

(although I do agree with you)

 

[JamDav1982]

Sylvinho.

 

[darthvader7888]

(although I do agree with you)

The exception to the rule

 

[PhilS]

What people don't understand about buying CB's is whilst yes having a new CB instead of playing Masch will be an improvement, the way we play we will always be massively susceptible to counter attacks/ fast teams and aerial threats. Having Thiago Silva and Hummels we still wouldn't be able to contend with likes of Madrid or Bayern. Because we still would have small attacking full backs, who can't defend crosses and are both usually too high up the pitch to defend counter attacks.

I think we definitely need at least one world class centre-back (i would also replace Pique, but i doubt that will happen) and also make sure only one of our FBs are attacking, down whichever wing they are needed. Replacing Alves with Montoya would help this i think. Our CBs shouldn't be playing up on the half-way line either when they know they don't have the pace to cover.

The new CB is likely to be in addition to Masch, who will continue to play CB quite a bit. The worst defensive problems this year were when Barca was playing CBs other than the top 3. That was a big dropoff below Pique, Puyol and Masch.

The 3 man midfield, with only one defensive midfielder, is the other Barca defensive system feature that is much riskier than how other top teams set up. Plus how many really short and light players are in the squad, at every position.

 

[Cule4life]

The only true personnel problem I see is depth. With a pressing game our defense will have far less problems in quick counterattacks and will have to deal with less. Bayern's defenders had absolutely nothing to do, except for when Messi was the one sparking the attack (which was rare considering how little he got the ball). Playing the style we do, defense isn't always about the defenders and attack isn't always about the attackers. The only thing buying an overpriced defender would do is satisfy some fans but still get wrecked in counterattacking situations where opposition players have immense space and options. Player for player, it wouldn't make a difference aside from the 40 million down the drain to fix a problem that has a completely different set of needs. If we focused on it tactically, our defenders wouldn't be dealing with impossible to defend situations and we wouldn't collapse nearly as much. There would be less space for the opposition to work in, giving an advantage to our players that would make even Mascherano seem like a world class CB with the easiness of the job. You continuously say that they are lacking in ability to defend and that we lack in world class personnel, but fix the system and our defenders themselves would look much better and composed as well.

A defensive transfer should focus on fixing the depth side of things. We need a talented, long term solution who can assume a leadership role in the future and plays the stopper-style that we lack right now.

So you think if we bring back the pressing we can win the CL with a defence of Pique, Mascherano and Puyol and Marquinhos. Think again. Even during Pep era when we pressed like maniacs though we were more secure defensively than we are now still we were always susceptible to set pieces and the occasional counterattack. If we bring back the pressing and have fast CB's like Thiago Silva/Vertonghen and a tall defensive FB(to defend set pieces and cut out the occasional breakaways from speedy players like Di Maria) our defence will rival that of Bayern.

-->Regarding Puyol as much as i love him we cant rely on him if we want to win the CL. The way he was humiliated by Di Maria shows we cant rely on him against fast counterattacking team.
-->And the less said about Pique the better. I havent seen a slower defender than him in all the years that i have been watching football. Not to mention that he's a p***y on set pieces getting outmuscled by Ramos and Varane
-->Mascherano not a natural CB. Gets caught out often and cant defend set pieces
-->Marquinhos has done well. But what we need is a leader of our backline-A Puyol replacement. And the pressure at a club like Barca which wants to wn the CL every year is much much higher than than Roma who cant even qualify for CL. And with a manager like Tito i doubt he would get much playing time
-->Bartra--His Barca career is finished thanks to Tito

So apart from bringing back the pressing we sure as hell could use an upgrade in our defence personnel. A club of the standard of Barca certainly deserves better defenders

 

[darthvader7888]

So you think if we bring back the pressing we can win the CL with a defence of Pique, Mascherano and Puyol and Marquinhos. Think again. Even during Pep era when we pressed like maniacs though we were more secure defensively than we are now still we were always susceptible to set pieces and the occasional counterattack. If we bring back the pressing and have fast CB's like Thiago Silva/Vertonghen and a tall defensive FB(to defend set pieces and cut out the occasional breakaways from speedy players like Di Maria) our defence will rival that of Bayern.

-->Regarding Puyol as much as i love him we cant rely on him if we want to win the CL. The way he was humiliated by Di Maria shows we cant rely on him against fast counterattacking team.
-->And the less said about Pique the better. I havent seen a slower defender than him in all the years that i have been watching football. Not to mention that he's a p***y on set pieces getting outmuscled by Ramos and Varane
-->Mascherano not a natural CB. Gets caught out often and cant defend set pieces
-->Marquinhos has done well. But what we need is a leader of our backline-A Puyol replacement. And the pressure at a club like Barca which wants to wn the CL every year is much much higher than than Roma who cant even qualify for CL. And with a manager like Tito i doubt he would get much playing time
-->Bartra--His Barca career is finished thanks to Tito

So apart from bringing back the pressing we sure as hell could use an upgrade in our defence personnel. A club of the standard of Barca certainly deserves better defenders

This. Marquinhos could work, especially with pressing and better tactics, but I'd go for someone more proven like Silva. Marquinhos would definitely be a better choice than some of the other rumored targets (*cough cough* Vermaelen *cough cough* David Luiz), though that's not really saying much.