Transfers and Rumours - old thread

[JamDav1982]

+1 Can't understand why management/Messi don't get that this is the best formation.

Messi centrally is always going to be Barca's best formation.

Anything else and you are restricting his influence.

A change to the wide players and the tactics used are needed but taking Messi out the middle would be a mistake.

 

[oz187]

Messi centrally is always going to be Barca's best formation.

Anything else and you are restricting his influence.

You know, I don't think that's necessarily true. The reason for the false 9 was of course to increase his influence, since in the traditional 4-3-3 he did get isolated and drop out of the game sometimes. By pressuring the Barca midfield the opposition could reduce the supply line to him. In that sense of course it makes sense not to go back to that.

However, what maybe wasn't considered was that you could play Messi as a winger, or maybe more accurately an inside forward in a false 9 system. In a sense this becomes a 4-4-2 with a diamond in the middle. That means you gain more control in the middle, it also means you can keep a good supply line to Messi. In essence the false 9 plays close to Messi, and pretty much will always get him the ball. However since Messi is now in the front line, he will get the ball in a more advanced position.

 

[JamDav1982]

You know, I don't think that's necessarily true. The reason for the false 9 was of course to increase his influence, since in the traditional 4-3-3 he did get isolated and drop out of the game sometimes. By pressuring the Barca midfield the opposition could reduce the supply line to him. In that sense of course it makes sense not to go back to that.

However, what maybe wasn't considered was that you could play Messi as a winger, or maybe more accurately an inside forward in a false 9 system. In a sense this becomes a 4-4-2 with a diamond in the middle. That means you gain more control in the middle, it also means you can keep a good supply line to Messi. In essence the false 9 plays close to Messi, and pretty much will always get him the ball. However since Messi is now in the front line, he will get the ball in a more advanced position.

Its more likely that they would play him behind a striker.

There is pretty much no chance of them putting him back out wide.

In the middle he can influence the game a lot more.

 

[Barca8]

Messi centrally is always going to be Barca's best formation.

Anything else and you are restricting his influence.

A change to the wide players and the tactics used are needed but taking Messi out the middle would be a mistake.

It wouldn't be a mistake. Continually doing the same thing especially when it doesn't work is a mistake. Messi at CF didn't work this year outside of La Liga where we didn't play minnows like Osasuna & Valladolid. Watch any Barcelona match, when Messi drops all the way to half way line to receive the ball there is nobody up front. The wingers are on the touchline so the opposition DMs & CBs can stay compact and just observe the pitch infront of them. Messi is one of the greatest players ever but he isn't going to dribble past 5 defenders every single time. Nor should he have to, thats just too much pressure. The Milan match was the best we played all season because we braught back the things Pep drilled into this team to make it great. We also used a CF in the CF position allowing Messi freedom to do what he wanted and it worked. Not to mention we kept one of our few clean sheets.

My personal preference is to always have a backup plan. Not having a proper CF and relying on Neymar & Messi to dribble around everyone is only going to take us so far.

 

[Semi-Neutral]

Messi is one of the greatest players ever but he isn't going to dribble past 5 defenders every single time.

If the wingers were doing their job, he wouldn't have to. The fact is, our wingers aren't currently enough of a threat to force defenders to man-mark them and as a result Messi gets completely marked out of the game by good teams and the rest of our squad cannot exploit this. Really, what is the logic in moving Messi out wide? The logic is, we actually have a threat on the wing now, and the other team can't shift their CBs over there to cover because we will exploit the space in the middle. So, if we get quality wingers (hopefully such as Neymar) the space exposed by players triple-teaming Messi will result in goals for us.

 

[Flavia]

It wouldn't be a mistake. Continually doing the same thing especially when it doesn't work is a mistake. Messi at CF didn't work this year outside of La Liga where we didn't play minnows like Osasuna & Valladolid. Watch any Barcelona match, when Messi drops all the way to half way line to receive the ball there is nobody up front. The wingers are on the touchline so the opposition DMs & CBs can stay compact and just observe the pitch infront of them. Messi is one of the greatest players ever but he isn't going to dribble past 5 defenders every single time. Nor should he have to, thats just too much pressure. The Milan match was the best we played all season because we braught back the things Pep drilled into this team to make it great. We also used a CF in the CF position allowing Messi freedom to do what he wanted and it worked. Not to mention we kept one of our few clean sheets.

My personal preference is to always have a backup plan. Not having a proper CF and relying on Neymar & Messi to dribble around everyone is only going to take us so far.

I'd like a player like klose to be a plan b.

 

[JamDav1982]

It wouldn't be a mistake. Continually doing the same thing especially when it doesn't work is a mistake. Messi at CF didn't work this year outside of La Liga where we didn't play minnows like Osasuna & Valladolid. Watch any Barcelona match, when Messi drops all the way to half way line to receive the ball there is nobody up front. The wingers are on the touchline so the opposition DMs & CBs can stay compact and just observe the pitch infront of them. Messi is one of the greatest players ever but he isn't going to dribble past 5 defenders every single time. Nor should he have to, thats just too much pressure. The Milan match was the best we played all season because we braught back the things Pep drilled into this team to make it great. We also used a CF in the CF position allowing Messi freedom to do what he wanted and it worked. Not to mention we kept one of our few clean sheets.

My personal preference is to always have a backup plan. Not having a proper CF and relying on Neymar & Messi to dribble around everyone is only going to take us so far.

The problem is not the most prolific player in football history it is the the supporting cast need to be improved.

Take Messi out of the middle and you are decreasing his impact.

 

[abual3bed1]

I don't think Thiago Silva is leaving PSG this summer. Even if he cuts back a 30% of wages.

 

[DonAndres]

It wouldn't be a mistake. Continually doing the same thing especially when it doesn't work is a mistake. Messi at CF didn't work this year outside of La Liga where we didn't play minnows like Osasuna & Valladolid. Watch any Barcelona match, when Messi drops all the way to half way line to receive the ball there is nobody up front. The wingers are on the touchline so the opposition DMs & CBs can stay compact and just observe the pitch infront of them. Messi is one of the greatest players ever but he isn't going to dribble past 5 defenders every single time. Nor should he have to, thats just too much pressure. The Milan match was the best we played all season because we braught back the things Pep drilled into this team to make it great. We also used a CF in the CF position allowing Messi freedom to do what he wanted and it worked. Not to mention we kept one of our few clean sheets.

My personal preference is to always have a backup plan. Not having a proper CF and relying on Neymar & Messi to dribble around everyone is only going to take us so far.

Disagree with you there. One of the things that makes Messi the deadliest player in the world is his ability to threaten anywhere while roaming. If he is getting pushed/marked back to midfield, it's a sign for Xavi and Busquets to advance their foundation play up the pitch and Iniesta to start pulling the ball towards the left to find forward channels.

Also if they really make the mistake of solely focusing on Messi, that gives the wingers some incentive to sneak a central run and score instead of maintaining their touchline position for width that wouldn't help in that situation. It may seem disciplined and correct for them not to compromise their duty of staying out wide but when they see a run they can make for Iniesta/Messi to find it's worth straying out of position. That kind of roaming and continuous movement towards/around the central area is what made Alexis such a key player in the last 2 months of the season. He stopped chaining himself to the wide areas and drifted central runs, putting his undoubtedly tricky and helpful movement to use.

 

[Barca8]

Really, what is the logic in moving Messi out wide? The logic is, we actually have a threat on the wing now, and the other team can't shift their CBs over there to cover because we will exploit the space in the middle. So, if we get quality wingers (hopefully such as Neymar) the space exposed by players triple-teaming Messi will result in goals for us.

It's funny that a CF works for every team in the world but not for us.
While as a person he's a true douche, CRybaby7 plays on the flank with strikers at CF. He still manages 50+ goals a season.

We can (will) continue Messi @ False 9 but not having anything different to offer teams like Bayern, Dortmund, Madrid, Juventus, PSG is just idiotic.

 

[Semi-Neutral]

While as a person he's a true douche, CRybaby7 plays on the flank with strikers at CF. He still manages 50+ goals a season.

And?

Every player is different; Cristiano is better on the wing and would almost certainly score less if he were a CF, due to his enjoyment of having space and how good he is running at people. Messi, on the other hand, is better at quick, controlled dribbling in tight spaces, so it makes sense to use him near goal.

 

[JamDav1982]

It's funny that a CF works for every team in the world but not for us.
While as a person he's a true douche, CRybaby7 plays on the flank with strikers at CF. He still manages 50+ goals a season.

We can (will) continue Messi @ False 9 but not having anything different to offer teams like Bayern, Dortmund, Madrid, Juventus, PSG is just idiotic.

That argument just totally ignores the other weaknesses in the attack.

Those teams would absolutely love if Barcelona's answer to their problems was to put Messi back out on the wing.

Ronaldo starts on the left and is more or less given a free role to go where he wants, he is not winger.

 

[fcbdna]

I'm like the only person on this forum who doesn't want to sell Alves.

Make that 2 of us. . . . BTW, we don't need Thiago silva. He is unnecessarily expensive for his age!

 

[Barca8]

Ronaldo starts on the left and is more or less given a free role to go where he wants, he is not winger.

Seriously are you guys this thick headed? You just said what I've been saying. Take your sentance and ...
Messi starts on the right and is more or less given a free role to go where he wants, he is not winger.

LOL

And?

Every player is different; Cristiano is better on the wing and would almost certainly score less if he were a CF, due to his enjoyment of having space and how good he is running at people. Messi, on the other hand, is better at quick, controlled dribbling in tight spaces, so it makes sense to use him near goal.

So?
and he didn't do that when Eto'o was on the team? Messi didn't score from a central position?
As far as I remember he wasn't gunning in shots from RW outside the 18 yard box. He would as you said "control the ball, dribble in tight spaces" and score.

I think you miss the point thinking putting Messi @ RW makes him a winger in the sense of Pedro or Navas.
As I said before the Milan game was our system played to perfection. Not only was the pressing & strategy there but the change in our personel (or where they were positioned) was also a key factor. And Messi's goals still came from a central position, as do CR7s or Gareth Bale or Neymar's.

 

[PaulFCB]

​

Manchester United announce the signing of the 24 year old Pole on their official website, before promptly removing it, but not before PaddyPower took a screen grab.

Where did you get that?
The official site says something totally different than that they "captured" Lewandowski.
And hell, can't we just pay 25 million for the guy, Borussia would be happy to sell him for 20 and not to Bayern...