Transfers and Rumours - old thread

[Barcilliant]

LOL-this is beyond a joke. I can imagine Zubi furiously typing away, searching for a defender and then looking for a youtube highlights video on the player-lol! That a club with our finances and global reach cannot sign ONE cb is mystifying.

 

[Gohan]

<s>@</s>barcastuff <small class="time"> 26 min
</small> Mourinho (coach Chelsea): "Barcelona bidding for David Luiz? We don't want to lose our best players. No chance." [via guardian]

Mourinho (coach Chelsea): "It's lost time for Barça. My advice is to go to the second player on their list because they are wasting time."

Mourinho and his mind games

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

IMHO, Mathieu isn't any better than Bartra.

I'd rather us give time to Bartra and actually try and develop him rather than sign a stopgap. Unless we get someone world class, it makes no sense to buy a player who isn't better than either Masche or Bartra

 

[DonAndres]

Bartra is shaky and unreliable at top level, he'll have a decent performance one game and then commit 2-3 almost goal conceding errors the next, Mathieu brings reliability and as I said before, he's a temporary stop-gap player. You don't just buy a "true leader" to replace Puyol and immediately take a commanding role of our defense, Bagnack is next in line of cantera defenders to be that long-term player but until we develop him fully (which Tata has done well with so far) we need a solution and a player we can count on for a reasonable price, Mathieu fits the bill perfectly.

Why does a signing have to be "world class" when our need isn't for a world class defender. Our players are still gaining fitness yet we've started pressing to solve a majority of our defensive problems, balanced the fullbacks, and made the job for our CB's much easier, all of this in a couple of weeks with key players still injured and all of them not hitting top form yet. Getting an incredibly expensive, world class defender to do a job that we've made much easier is overkill, like using a tank to chase down a few robbers. Right now, our defensive issue is depth and consistent options that function well, the "leader" issue we have the option to solve a few years down the line in a much less knee-jerk way. Mathieu gives us depth at not only CB, but at LB in case both Alba and Adriano are out for some reason, he won't mind being benched for big games in favor of Puyol, and has the qualities that we need in a last minute signing.

 

[darthvader7888]

Bartra is shaky and unreliable at top level, he'll have a decent performance one game and then commit 2-3 almost goal conceding errors the next, Mathieu brings reliability and as I said before, he's a temporary stop-gap player. You don't just buy a "true leader" to replace Puyol and immediately take a commanding role of our defense, Bagnack is next in line of cantera defenders to be that long-term player but until we develop him fully (which Tata has done well with so far) we need a solution and a player we can count on for a reasonable price, Mathieu fits the bill perfectly.

Why does a signing have to be "world class" when our need isn't for a world class defender. Our players are still gaining fitness yet we've started pressing to solve a majority of our defensive problems, balanced the fullbacks, and made the job for our CB's much easier, all of this in a couple of weeks with key players still injured and all of them not hitting top form yet. Getting an incredibly expensive, world class defender to do a job that we've made much easier is overkill, like using a tank to chase down a few robbers. Right now, our defensive issue is depth and consistent options that function well, the "leader" issue we have the option to solve a few years down the line in a much less knee-jerk way. Mathieu gives us depth at not only CB, but at LB in case both Alba and Adriano are out for some reason, he won't mind being benched for big games in favor of Puyol, and has the qualities that we need in a last minute signing.

Our current CBs simply aren't good enough (though pressing helps). We need a starter, not a 3rd or 4th choice. As i_bleed_blaugrana said, it doesn't make sense to get someone who isn't better than Masch.

 

[DonAndres]

4th choice? He'd likely be around the same priority as Masch and definitely adds more than him (positioning and aerial ability)... Once again the job of a CB in defense is overstated right now, as if everything having to do with defense is all about CB's.

Our defenders are good enough to do the job, but last season they saw too much of it. Any CB would look bad playing in a high line with no protection from midfield or even the fullbacks, having to cover acres of space all on their own (that's how hard it was for them last season). Other teams' CB's look much better individually because they sit deep covered by a midfield and attack that compress and make the process of cutting out attacks very simple. That was the difference in collective defensive tactics between other teams and Barca last season. Playing a high line is obviously risky, but the way we did it last season made it look suicidal. This season with a majority of our problems being solved, our defenders will guaranteed look much better individually and might even pop up on a few "best of the season" lists due to the more assured nature of their playing because the job will be easier.

 

[Co0ter]

4th choice? He'd likely be around the same priority as Masch and definitely adds more than him (positioning and aerial ability)... Once again the job of a CB in defense is overstated right now, as if everything having to do with defense is all about CB's.

Our defenders are good enough to do the job, but last season they saw too much of it. Any CB would look bad playing in a high line with no protection from midfield or even the fullbacks, having to cover acres of space all on their own (that's how hard it was for them last season). Other teams' CB's look much better individually because they sit deep covered by a midfield and attack that compress and make the process of cutting out attacks very simple. That was the difference in collective defensive tactics between other teams and Barca last season. Playing a high line is obviously risky, but the way we did it last season made it look suicidal. This season with a majority of our problems being solved, our defenders will guaranteed look much better individually and might even pop up on a few "best of the season" lists due to the more assured nature of their playing because the job will be easier.

How anyone can say our defense is good enough after the last two seasons makes me question if they watched any games what-so-ever. Pique has been off-form, Masch does his best/well but has poor positioning, Puyol has barely even played (injuries and aging) and Bartra is young, inexperienced and has showed more negative to me than positive- and I wish that wasn't true. Not to mention Bartra is another average to below average speed player.

We needed a strong, decently pacey defender this summer. Period. The fact that that season is about to begin and we didn't get one shows how negligent our leadership really is.

 

[Cruijffista]

Mathieu is much better than Mascherano, it's not even close.

As of right now, he's a better option than Bartra too.

Hopefully we get one of our 3 targets though.

 

[Cruijffista]

How anyone can say our defense is good enough after the last two seasons makes me question if they watched any games what-so-ever. Pique has been off-form, Masch does his best/well but has poor positioning, Puyol has barely even played (injuries and aging) and Bartra is young, inexperienced and has showed more negative to me than positive- and I wish that wasn't true. Not to mention Bartra is another average to below average speed player.

We needed a strong, decently pacey defender this summer. Period. The fact that that season is about to begin and we didn't get one shows how negligent our leadership really is.

Rosell is trying. He just launched 3 bids.

It was a mistake to foolishly keep on pursuing Thiago Silva last summer instead of Vertonghen. A.C. Milan was so adamant on getting Thiago Alcantara in any type of deal for Thiago Silva and we just wouldn't budge.

Tito instructed Rosell to buy Song because he thought he could convert him to a CB. Rosell gave Tito what he asked for and unfortunately Tito was wrong.

 

[DonAndres]

How anyone can say our defense is good enough after the last two seasons makes me question if they watched any games what-so-ever. Pique has been off-form, Masch does his best/well but has poor positioning, Puyol has barely even played and Bartra is young, inexperienced and has showed more negative to me than positive- and I wish that wasn't true. Not to mention Bartra is another average to below average speed player.

We needed a strong, decently pacey defender this summer. Period. The fact that that season is about to begin and we didn't get one shows how negligent our leadership really is.

Don't get me wrong, our defenders did have their individual flaws. However it was the horrible defensive system that magnified those flaws to a large degree, whereas a protected and stable defensive system would disguise their flaws better. We will probably have that stability this season, which means we'll see far less of Pique getting gunned down in 1v1's, less Mascherano own goals, less counters where they get through the defense as if it's nothing. Every defender in every single team has flaws of some sort, it just remains to be seen whether or not they get called out on it as often as ours do. As they get easier duties, they will play more assured and composed, we'll see a raise in form.

We do need a defender, that much is very clear. However we need it for the right reasons and the right kind, getting someone as expensive as Silva would be unnecessary and wasteful no matter how good he is, if we make the job easier then we won't need that high profile of a defender. Mathieu is tall, fast, and strong, not to mention reliable and versatile. The search for a world class leader will take much longer than a couple of weeks, there are far too many factors for such a search. However as of now, Mathieu is a fine defensive transfer. No one can expect some magically perfect and world class defender to offer himself to the club for pennies at the last minute, this option is very decent for the circumstances we're in.

 

[mixer]

Handanovic (Inter): "Barça? If a club wants you, you're the first to hear it. I didn't hear anything, it was just press talk." [gazzetta]

 

[Zincubus]

How anyone can say our defense is good enough after the last two seasons makes me question if they watched any games what-so-ever. Pique has been off-form, Masch does his best/well but has poor positioning, Puyol has barely even played (injuries and aging) and Bartra is young, inexperienced and has showed more negative to me than positive- and I wish that wasn't true. Not to mention Bartra is another average to below average speed player.

We needed a strong, decently pacey defender this summer. Period. The fact that that season is about to begin and we didn't get one shows how negligent our leadership really is.

Well I LOVE Puyol but I still get hot sweats thinking about him against Real Madrid when he controlled the ball on his own goal line and gifted them the goal , a turning point in that match . He's a year older and slower now

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

I'm convinced that a majority of why our defense faltered last season was bc of a lack of pressing. It just under pinned the overall lack of intensity that we had under Tito.

Obviously there were a lot of factors that played into this, but the fact remains that our defensive game was no where near what it needed to be; understandable considering Tito's abscence, complacency in the team etc. The Pep hangover was always going to be rough.

I'm just saying Piqué-Mascherano wasn't a terrible combo in 2010. I mention that season bc in particular, our pressing was on point. Pep was constantly stressing intense pressing up the field, with a high defensive line. We didn't see anything near that last season except against Milan (2nd leg).

I'm sorry but a club of our prestige shouldn't settle and while Mathieu is a good player, I'm not convinced he would have a lasting effect on the club. We need a long term option, and a player who is 29 doesn't sound like a solution. We need a Varane and I don't even think we have to go out of the club to find one.

^DonAndres

I think it's pretty unfair to critique Bartra too harshly after last season. He had absolutely no rhythm last season and no consistent playing time, key components of what you need to develop as a young player. Varane, on the other hand got much more playing time early in the season and had enough confidence to turn into beast-mode against us.

If we can't find anyone who fits the bill correctly this season, we shouldn't sign anyone. I know it sucks, particularly when there have been very viable options in the past. But if I were Tata, I would give Bartra and Bagnack lots of time. Use Piqué-Puyol on the tougher games and rotate Masch in when you need him. Thus, Masch is the stopgap.

Perhaps there we will have better prospects in the winter window, but I'd rather us actually give our youth an actual shot before we sign just a temporary replacement. No reason we can't bleed Bartra and Bagnack against low-risk la liga teams. If one seizes the opportunity, with a lot of confidence they could step up for the big occasions in the 2nd half of the season.

If not, like I said, we can still make a winter deal. It might be much easier to buy, hypothetically speaking of course, a want away Luiz who hasn't gelled with Mou's defense after the first half of the season...

 

[darthvader7888]

Don't get me wrong, our defenders did have their individual flaws. However it was the horrible defensive system that magnified those flaws to a large degree, whereas a protected and stable defensive system would disguise their flaws better. We will probably have that stability this season, which means we'll see far less of Pique getting gunned down in 1v1's, less Mascherano own goals, less counters where they get through the defense as if it's nothing. Every defender in every single team has flaws of some sort, it just remains to be seen whether or not they get called out on it as often as ours do. As they get easier duties, they will play more assured and composed, we'll see a raise in form.

We do need a defender, that much is very clear. However we need it for the right reasons and the right kind, getting someone as expensive as Silva would be unnecessary and wasteful no matter how good he is, if we make the job easier then we won't need that high profile of a defender. Mathieu is tall, fast, and strong, not to mention reliable and versatile. The search for a world class leader will take much longer than a couple of weeks, there are far too many factors for such a search. However as of now, Mathieu is a fine defensive transfer. No one can expect some magically perfect and world class defender to offer himself to the club for pennies at the last minute, this option is very decent for the circumstances we're in.

Pressing may disguise the flaws partially, but the flaws are still there, and if we don't get a starter, our defense will still be a weakness. Sure, pressing will ease the pressure on the defense, but the few times the defense is tested we're far more likely to concede with Pique/Puyol, Pique/Masch or Pique/Mathieu than Pique/a better CB.

Remember the Chelsea game last year? We pressed well, but still lost due to an error from Masch. Same goes for the Milan game, we pressed well but looked pretty shaky the few times our defense was tested, and could have been knocked out due to an error from Masch. Pressing may ease the pressure on the defense, but our CBs still aren't good enough, we need someone who can start and is an improvement on what we have now.

It doesn't have to be a super expensive player either. N'Koulou, for example, would be a good option. He's young, not too expensive, and Ligue 1's second best CB. And, unlike Mathieu, he's an improvement on what we currently have and not a 3rd/4th choice. He'd probably be better for us than Agger/Luiz, too. I wonder why we aren't even looking at him. I know our scouts suck, but still.

 

[Hamzah]

In the Pep era we defended well mostly because of the pressing system. If the works perfectly it doesn't matter who the defence is. We beat Arsenal 4-1 without Pique and Puyol. We won the CL final with Yaya at cb and Sylvinho at lb.

Defending is more about the team shape and everyone kong how to work in the system than individual talents. Obviously we want a world class cb if available to replace Puyol, but if none are available then get a stop gap for the mean time, our defence will improve under Tata even if we get nobody because he is improving our defence tactically.

The games last year we didn't press well. That's why we conceded so many.