Dick believes that you lot have a WC back-up for almost every position, and I don't really see it. Hence the query. Fairly capable, sure. But Barca can also put out a competitive B XI.
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UEFA Champions League 2014-15
- Thread starter PaulFCB
- Start date
Dick believes that you lot have a WC back-up for almost every position, and I don't really see it. Hence the query. Fairly capable, sure. But Barca can also put out a competitive B XI.
StarLord
New member
StarLord, just a reminder, the original question was whether Messi was particularly good or rather bad against German opposition, and more specifically, against Bayern and/or the German NT.
Against Bayern there were four matches, in which he scored a brace against the brilliantly Klinsmann managed team, during which Christian Lell (!) had to defend against him on the wrong side of the pitch (!!) due to the severe injuries Bayen suffered at that time on the Fullback position.
The other was a 1-1 during which he didn't score.
In the last two encounters, he had no impact at all when on the pitch.
Against the NT, he tried a few things in the final, but to no avail. Most remarkably was the shot only inches off the right post. I think there was one friendly where Argentina beat Germany 2-0, IIRC, during which he was okay. Anybody is bored enough to look up his record against Germany?
Other than the 2013 first semifinal (when he has way off 100%) Messi has excelled against German clubs whenever he faced them. He did not play in the 2nd leg, but you seem to forget that. The second leg in 2009 was a dead rubber, and Barcelona took it very lightly as we were being chased by Real Madrid in the league and were also making progress in the Copa.
As for the German NT, what does that have to do with discussing Bayearn, Barcelona and Real in the context of the CL?
Messi is at a supreme disadvantage when playing with the Argentine NT, as they are horrifically unable to support him. I thought he was good in the WC final, but not great. It was not a case of the German team doing the number on him, but more of his teammates being below standard and also himself being relatively unfit (in terms of stamina)
I don't even get the point you are trying to make here. If Di Maria could wipe the floor with the German NT, then what would stop Messi doing the same of the conditions were right?
You seem to have an obscenely inflated view of both Bayern and the German NT, who are both top notch btw, but not magic as you seem to believe.
KingMessi
SiempreBlaugrana
Especially in certain positions like their backup fullbacks.
StarLord
New member
The point here is not to make sweeping and generalized conclusions from isolated games. Neither 2009, nor 2013 mean very much in the grand scheme of things. But anyone who doubts that Messi can cause havoc for Bayern Munich is frankly, a bit insane!
I mean, if Ramos and Carvajal could do it, then why not Messi?
R
Ryu Hayabusa
Guest
The spark which trigged the discussion was something like "I completely expect Messi to turn it up against Bayern and tear them to shreds as he probably had it with those Germans after the WC loss".
So it is fair game to include his record against the GermanNT.
L
linetty
Guest
No, it's not.
skn02
New member
If Messi is healthy and Barca in form and in good condition, there's 0 reason for Messi to not play well like he always does against big sides. Messi's best records in the league are always against the best teams in the league, RM, Atletico, Sevilla, Valencia etc etc, and If Messi can do this consistently to one of the best teams it the world like RM, then why not Bayern. The only reason why you could come up with not so good record of Messi vs Bayern is because he simply hasn't faced Bayern enough to draw a conclusion on a larger sample size. If Bayern is in la liga where Messi could play twice against every year, I guarantee you Bayern will be one of the teams Messi score the most against or play the best against. Point of the matter is that Messi is a big game player, and against a big side like Bayern, Messi will always perform unless circumstances state otherwise.
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StarLord
New member
I don't know if you noticed it, but Messi in the Blaugrana is a different animal to Messi in the Albiceleste.
Well at one point he was "weak" against English clubs away from home and italian clubs away from home. Those kind of records don't mean much and a lot depends on circumstances. Messi is well capable of causing major problems for Bayern.
StarLord
New member
Messi has been weak against English clubs, Italian clubs and away from home at different times.
This was of course BS all along. Given enough games, Messi will produce devastation against any set of teams.
Richard.H
Senior Member
And what's the purpose of your reply? Fans from other teams are always welcome on BarcaForum. It's always fun having a debate with an RM fan or a fan from any other team.
antonnn
Blue Blooded Aussie
Messi doesn't turn up against certain teams? Doesn't matter, it happens to every player. Bayern would be one it sounds like, Chelsea is another, where he only managed anything when he was what, 19? And in the return leg of that tie I recall him not doing very much. But he spanks practically every other team, so can't be too critical of him! Cristiano was also shit against Chelsea more often than not, especially after we got Ashley Cole. He literally ran from the guy when he could. 
Messi doesn't turn up against certain teams? Doesn't matter, it happens to every player. Bayern would be one it sounds like, Chelsea is another, where he only managed anything when he was what, 19? And in the return leg of that tie I recall him not doing very much. But he spanks practically every other team, so can't be too critical of him! Cristiano was also shit against Chelsea more often than not, especially after we got Ashley Cole. He literally ran from the guy when he could.
I don't think he's gone very well generally against Bayern/Germany. Don't think he's ever scored against Neuer either, or Cech for that matter.
StarLord
New member
Bayern is one thing, Germany is another.
The fact of the matter is that Messi has played rarely against these teams. Given enough games, he will cut them to shreds more often than not.
If Luiz could own Chelsea and Ramos pummel Bayern then, well, you get the picture.
Edit: on second thoughts, Messi assisten both of Iniesta's goals against Chelsea in 09 and 12. He also created several chances for Cesc and Alexis in the first leg in 12, but they missed. Stupid, stupid discussion.
But I came here to post this. This is from Chelsea's official website, written by a dude called Giles Smith (a guy who thinks he is a lot funnier than he actually is) If there ever was an Academy Award for Best Sore Loser Performance, he would be getting it every single time: http://www.chelseafc.com/news/colum...les-smith/giles-smith--the-quest-goes-on.html
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