Wayne Rooney

[dalitis8]

Obviously. It's the Rooney topic... why bring Messi in?

Because there were suggestions that he is better, more complete and the like. Have you missed what Fowler said?

 

[desoe]

People in this forum are obsessed with "someone-being-compared-to-Messi" situations.

OH NO, SOMEONE COMPARED ROONEY TO MESSI, WHAT THE FUCK.

 

[dalitis8]

People in this forum are obsessed with "someone-being-compared-to-Messi" situations.

OH NO, SOMEONE COMPARED ROONEY TO MESSI, WHAT THE FUCK.

They are not merely comparing...they are either implying or openly stating that Rooney is better than Messi. As they were doing two seasons ago.

 

[M00se]

Disagree with so much in that post.

1. Rooney can come up with a moment of genius even when he has an off game.
Totally disagree and would say that Rooney out of all the top players in the world has games and periods where he goes totally off the boil. Far more so than the likes of Ronaldo and Messi.

2. He is the only player I can think of that can play so many positions and do them all WC
Messi is s a better striker, winger, wide player and creative midfielder than Rooney so that doesnt stack up.

3. Rooney the only player in the world who can score 30 goals a season and play eye of the needle passes.
Total bollocks, he has only once scored over thirty goals and has never done this at the same time as having a season whenhe was strong creatively.

4.No player in the world is talked about by players & coaches more than Rooney and there's a reason for this, he's fantastic
Again just not true. Players and managers come out weekly and call Messi their inspiration, the best player in the world and some say the best of all time. You may get an English pundit come out and say these things once or twice a season about Rooney. If players and coaches rate him so highly where is he in the world player of the year awards as it is them that vote. Has he ever been in the top ten?

The same argument about players being 'most complete' is a common one when people are trying to cling to a reason why a player is better than Messi. But breaking down a players characteristics means little, it is what they do on the park that counts. Using the 'more complete' theory it could be argued that Tom Huddlestone is 'more complete' than Xavi. Ridiculous.

1) As said Rooney is often sacrificed for the team or for other players to flourish (Ronaldo), see United Barcelona game in Rome, Rooney was played as a left winger in that game and was all that season and the season before that and still did a WC job scoring 20+ goals in both, because he was played out of position should we judge him as Rooney playing in his best position or just say respect for doing a job for his team? It’s like judging Messi as a wing-back if he played there, would it be fair to judge Messi at his best in that position? Course it wouldn’t, many players would have a strop if they don’t play in their best position, Rooney doesn’t, that’s one of his main quality’s, the season after Ronaldo left, Rooney played as a main centre forward (never saw the best of his quality’s playing in that position) but he scored 34 goals in three quarters of a season, he can do everything.

2) Dude why are you bringing Messi into this? Both are different players, it’s like comparing Van Basten to Zidane, Messi is unique in what he does and for that reason will always stand out more than Rooney, but don’t even say Messi is an allround better footballer than Rooney, has more quality’s than Rooney on a football pitch and can play in more positions than Rooney because who are you kidding?

3) As said often played out of position, he can though as a proper centre forward and as ability to do so playing as 2nd striker (which probably will this season) and can score 20+ playing out wide along with say 15 assists, is that not a WC return for someone who’s not a wide player?

4) Again who are you kidding, Messi himself talks about Rooney as much as anyone, Pep/Xavi/Jose/Tevez (saying he’s the best he’s played with and he’s played with Messi), list goes on and on – Actually I would go as far to say England don’t truly appreciate how good Rooney is more than the rest of the world do, was the same with Paul Scholes, in this country we appreciate fat Frank/Scotty Parker type players more and then people wonder why we fail.

For the record, Messi is the best player in the world (Ronaldo closey behind him) – Whilst sometimes Messi isn't always in the game for large parts, what he does on a football pitch is unique and it’s those quality’s which make him standout just as the Maradona’s and Best’s before him, what I don’t like about the Messi hype train is when people say he’s the best player in history – Lets’ have it right, he’s 23 years old, currently plays at a club who are the best in the world (maybe history), a club where I could score 20 goals for since he has the best central midfield pairing behind him (Iniesta and Xavi), let’s see him do it for his country first or another club where he doesn’t have these players behind him and let’s have it right, up to now he’s failed with it – That’s often my doubt with Messi, could he play for any club/league in the world and still be the same Messi? Answer is no, stick Rooney in an England/Peterbrough/Real Madrid or Inter shirt and he would still be the same Rooney, you would be confident with that.

Anyway at the moment comparing Messi to Rooney reminds me of the film Troy and Hector and Archillas, both Hector and Archillias are 2 of the best warriors in the world, yet Hector’s battle hardened/self taught skills are no match for Archillas god given skills and in Rooney’s/Messi’s case noone is saying there is.

What I and a lot of people say though is Rooney’s the best allround player in the world, it’s not even debatable because that’s what he is.

 

[dalitis8]

Let's simplify things Moose.

If you had to choose between Messi and Rooney, who would you pick to be on your side?

 

[Barcafan 2304]

Moose, it is debatable. In fact, people who think Rooney is better than Messi are living in cloud Sky-coverage/hype-of-EPL land

 

[catalan force]

a club where I could score 20 goals for since he has the best central midfield pairing behind him (Iniesta and Xavi), let’s see him do it for his country first or another club where he doesn’t have these players behind him and let’s have it right, up to now he’s failed with it – That’s often my doubt with Messi, could he play for any club/league in the world and still be the same Messi? Answer is no, stick Rooney in an England/Peterbrough/Real Madrid or Inter shirt and he would still be the same Rooney, you would be confident with that.

1.did rooney scored all the goals by himself?? did he had no supplier in the form of nani or valencia??
2.messi plays shit with argentina compared to his barca form, still he is their best player on the pitch time and time again..can you say the same for rooney?? what has he done for england??
3.messi according to you wont fit into any other team easily but rooney would with eyes closed?? how do you know??

 

[M00se]

Let's simplify things Moose.

If you had to choose between Messi and Rooney, who would you pick to be on your side?

That's a tough one, id probably say Rooney.

Lets's be honest there's not much seperating Ronaldo and Messi and when Ronaldo left United (as the best player in the world) it was said United moving on from Ronaldo isn't a bigger problem as it would have been if it was Rooney, he's the engine.

 

[M00se]

Moose, it is debatable. In fact, people who think Rooney is better than Messi are living in cloud Sky-coverage/hype-of-EPL land

Wouldn't you say people who bash Rooney are anti-Sky-coverage/hype-of-EPL land? (here)? Afterall Barcelona and La Liga are the 2nd option for these people.

So even if Rooney was that good, Barcaforum isn't really the place to be to get a good neutral view of him as there's quite a few people here with agendas against English football.

 

[woobie]

Barca is a second option for me, true enough. But my first option is and remains AC Milan and Serie A. I do not personally enjoy the English style of play so watch very little EPL.

Stoke's got a point about the Sky propaganda machine, though.

Having seen Rooney play a couple of times (in person at the stadium), I think he's good. Very good, even, probably the best Englishman playing the game right now. But I don't think he's at the same level as Messi or Ronaldo.

 

[M00se]

Barca is a second option for me, true enough. But my first option is and remains AC Milan and Serie A. I do not personally enjoy the English style of play so watch very little EPL.

Stoke's got a point about the Sky propaganda machine, though.

Having seen Rooney play a couple of times (in person at the stadium), I think he's good. Very good, even, probably the best Englishman playing the game right now. But I don't think he's at the same level as Messi or Ronaldo.

Well i'm not really talking about you since you are American, what i'm talking about is English/British people.

It's like your NBA and American's shunning it (for their own reasons) and just following the 2nd best league in another country (whatever that is), it doesn't matter if you or anyone else doesn't like the EPL it is the strongest league in the world.

 

[woobie]

I don't necessarily think it's the strongest. It's got the best propaganda/publicity/marketing, to be sure. But the strongest? That's debatable.

And why should all English people be automatically expected to like/support their country's league?

 

[RedMadridista]

Let's simplify things Moose.

If you had to choose between Messi and Rooney, who would you pick to be on your side?

Most United fans would choose Rooney over Messi. It's not about who is better.........


Who would you have... Valdes or Casillas? See... It's quite pointless really.

 

[Phatroonaldo]

1) As said Rooney is often sacrificed for the team or for other players to flourish (Ronaldo), see United Barcelona game in Rome, Rooney was played as a left winger in that game and was all that season and the season before that and still did a WC job scoring 20+ goals in both, because he was played out of position should we judge him as Rooney playing in his best position or just say respect for doing a job for his team? It’s like judging Messi as a wing-back if he played there, would it be fair to judge Messi at his best in that position? Course it wouldn’t, many players would have a strop if they don’t play in their best position, Rooney doesn’t, that’s one of his main quality’s, the season after Ronaldo left, Rooney played as a main centre forward (never saw the best of his quality’s playing in that position) but he scored 34 goals in three quarters of a season, he can do everything.

2) Dude why are you bringing Messi into this? Both are different players, it’s like comparing Van Basten to Zidane, Messi is unique in what he does and for that reason will always stand out more than Rooney, but don’t even say Messi is an allround better footballer than Rooney, has more quality’s than Rooney on a football pitch and can play in more positions than Rooney because who are you kidding?

3) As said often played out of position, he can though as a proper centre forward and as ability to do so playing as 2nd striker (which probably will this season) and can score 20+ playing out wide along with say 15 assists, is that not a WC return for someone who’s not a wide player?

4) Again who are you kidding, Messi himself talks about Rooney as much as anyone, Pep/Xavi/Jose/Tevez (saying he’s the best he’s played with and he’s played with Messi), list goes on and on – Actually I would go as far to say England don’t truly appreciate how good Rooney is more than the rest of the world do, was the same with Paul Scholes, in this country we appreciate fat Frank/Scotty Parker type players more and then people wonder why we fail.

[For the record, Messi is the best player in the world (Ronaldo closey behind him) – Whilst sometimes Messi isn't always in the game for large parts, what he does on a football pitch is unique and it’s those quality’s which make him standout just as the Maradona’s and Best’s before him, what I don’t like about the Messi hype train is when people say he’s the best player in history – Lets’ have it right, he’s 23 years old, currently plays at a club who are the best in the world (maybe history), a club where I could score 20 goals for since he has the best central midfield pairing behind him (Iniesta and Xavi), let’s see him do it for his country first or another club where he doesn’t have these players behind him and let’s have it right, up to now he’s failed with it – That’s often my doubt with Messi, could he play for any club/league in the world and still be the same Messi? Answer is no, stick Rooney in an England/Peterbrough/Real Madrid or Inter shirt and he would still be the same Rooney, you would be confident with that.

Anyway at the moment comparing Messi to Rooney reminds me of the film Troy and Hector and Archillas, both Hector and Archillias are 2 of the best warriors in the world, yet Hector’s battle hardened/self taught skills are no match for Archillas god given skills and in Rooney’s/Messi’s case noone is saying there is.

What I and a lot of people say though is Rooney’s the best allround player in the world, it’s not even debatable because that’s what he is.

Andy Gray, is that you?

 

[zanela]

2)Dude why are you bringing Messi into this? Both are different players, it’s like comparing Van Basten to Zidane, Messi is unique in what he does and for that reason will always stand out more than Rooney, but don’t even say Messi is an allround better footballer than Rooney, has more quality’s than Rooney on a football pitch and can play in more positions than Rooney because who are you kidding?

Thats a bold claim to make. I'd like to know about the qualities of Rooney(minus heading) that are absent in Messi and also the positions that favour the former?

For the record, Messi is the best player in the world (Ronaldo closey behind him) – Whilst sometimes Messi isn't always in the game for large parts, what he does on a football pitch is unique and it’s those quality’s which make him standout just as the Maradona’s and Best’s before him, what I don’t like about the Messi hype train is when people say he’s the best player in history – Lets’ have it right, he’s 23 years old, currently plays at a club who are the best in the world (maybe history), a club where I could score 20 goals for since he has the best central midfield pairing behind him (Iniesta and Xavi), let’s see him do it for his country first or another club where he doesn’t have these players behind him and let’s have it right, up to now he’s failed with it – That’s often my doubt with Messi, could he play for any club/league in the world and still be the same Messi? Answer is no, stick Rooney in an England/Peterbrough/Real Madrid or Inter shirt and he would still be the same Rooney, you would be confident with that.

Leo is very much integral to our general play. Every attack goes through him and every build-up has his involvement. For that reason, he can't go missing for large parts in a game, even if he wanted to. And when we don't 've the ball, he's helping the team in regaining possession. While he benefits from having Xavietsa behind him, Leo combines with them/even individually to create loads of opportunities for others. He has been Barca's primary assistman the last 2 years. And there have been games which required Messi's individual brilliance to topple the opposition, despite Xavieta's presence. Games that won us The Championships. He drops deep, distributes, makes runs, creates space, assists and finishes. He is ridiculously productive, both in terms of creativity AND goals scoring. A rare sight in our sport.

Having the best central midfield pairing doesn't necessarily guarantee success to any forward. Its your own attributes and ability that 'll eventually decide your fate. For a forward, if you lack the touch, control, anticipation, positioning, don't make the right runs, can't beat your man, or finish your chances, there is nothing that can help, not even xavieta. The clubs that don't boast of a MF of similar quality 've strikers that score on a regular basis. To suggest/claim any player can score x amount of goals on the basis of mere creative talent at your disposal is stupid and ignorant.
What makes this team special is the team chemistry and the players that compliment each other. And since we play a very specific style, our players need to be top notch at fundamentals and also exhibit versatility and understanding of each other's game inside out. Its called Total Football. You can't just put any player in this team and expect to be an instant success (least not someone who shows naivety in regards to football basics and its understanding). Messi is great because he is firstly individually great, and then he benefits from quality team mates around him. But its symbiotic.
Be it Messi, Rooney, Ronaldo, they all need a proper functioning Midfield (doesn't 've to be worldclass, but one that sets the platform for the attackers). Argentina don't 've one.
If players of lesser talent (Silva, Eto'o, mata, ronaldo, etc) can excel in more than one league/club, messi, sure as hell can.