Xavi Hernández

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mc_lovin

Senior Member
Someone else already pointed out, but every top team (Liverpool, City, Bayern) at the moment plays some alteration of Pep's Barcelona or principles. But somehow it's outdated?

I will agree with BBZ if Xavi starts to play a front 6 of six AM's and it looks sterile as fuck (not a fan of City personally). But right now he seems to like wingers :p
 

Zidane82

Well-known member
Someone else already pointed out, but every top team (Liverpool, City, Bayern) at the moment plays some alteration of Pep's Barcelona or principles. But somehow it's outdated?

I will agree with BBZ if Xavi starts to play a front 6 of six AM's and it looks sterile as fuck (not a fan of City personally). But right now he seems to like wingers :p

We loaned our best winger ( Trincao) out to Wolves :(
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Someone else already pointed out, but every top team (Liverpool, City, Bayern) at the moment plays some alteration of Pep's Barcelona or principles. But somehow it's outdated?

I will agree with BBZ if Xavi starts to play a front 6 of six AM's and it looks sterile as fuck (not a fan of City personally). But right now he seems to like wingers :p

I wouldn't have anything against playing a style which would be:
1. 50% of Pep's style in terms of tactics and ideas
2. paired with fast-goalscoring wingers, a true no9 (not Pep's shitty KDB/Foden/short Jesus no9) and some stamina, pace and strength in midfield

We lost 4:0 to Klopp's Liverpool with Henderson and Milner.
I don't see that much of a similarities behind Pep 2008-12 and Liverpool, btw.
Unless if pressing, attacking football and trying to dominate is invented by Pep?

Well it's still obviously working in the league where consistency is what matters. As for CL, too many factors are involved in a 2-match knockout or final where luck is one of them. With luck we'd have 3 CL's in a row, without luck Madrid would have max 2 CL's of the 4 they won.

In the end it's not the coach who's on the pitch.

I have explained it many times:
1. in league, you usually don't win leagues because you are winning against equals but because you are the most consistent in wins against minow teams.
So, Pep winning EPL doesn't say too much about his tactics except that it is the best against smaller teams.
Which makes sense. If you want to win against smaller teams, just keep possession, pass left and right for 90 minutes and eventually you will break their defense built of average players without world class concentration/experience.
2. another factor in a league is = there is no pressure, there is no danger of being KO'd/experiencing a sudden death.
And then, since Pep the dictator don't like strong personalities and superstars but an army of quiet choir boys who will blindly follow his orders, that type of players will work way better in safe surroundings of EPL/group stage of a CL, where you can make mistakes so the pressure is off.
So, his teams are filled with technically superior players against poorer/minow teams, and he is getting great results.
But when he comes to a CL KO matches against EQUAL teams and where you can get KOd in 90 minutes, his tactics usually turn into shit, he is easily neutralized, and his players are headless, they don't have a leader or fighting spirit players.
Also, at a bench they have a coach who is sticking to his style no matter what and there is never a plan B in his books.
Also, how there could be a plan B when his midfield-attacking/winger line consists of 6 players who are all offensive midfielders deep down in their DNA (with more or less the same set of skills) and he is just playing 6 attacking midfielders at all midfield/wing/Cf positions.
To some extent, a plan B is impossible with him when he has all players of the same type.

True, winning EPLs is awesome, but...
In a CL, at least several clubs had similar or better results than Pep in the last 9 years, yet our fans don't write poems about those coaches.

For example, since 2012: season:
4 finals: Real Madrid
2 finals: Juventus, Atletico, Liverpool, Bayern (without Pep)
1 final: Barca, Dortmund, Chelsea, Tottenham, Psg, City

Yet, somehow, for a lot of core Pepistas, Pep is still the best coach in the world and his style is still the way to go.

Yet, you could argue that all 5 teams who played more finals than Pep since 2012:
1. play more direct than him
2. cross more him
3. attack in various way and not only in possession way
4. have a No9 who can head the ball
5. have more physical players than Pep
6. have less money than City (except RM)
7. have more superstars in a team
8. have more fighting spirit/less choir boys
 
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FC B

Senior Member
Someone else already pointed out, but every top team (Liverpool, City, Bayern) at the moment plays some alteration of Pep's Barcelona or principles. But somehow it's outdated?

I will agree with BBZ if Xavi starts to play a front 6 of six AM's and it looks sterile as fuck (not a fan of City personally). But right now he seems to like wingers :p

The original one is outdated, it's variations still work under certain conditions. Xavi though is advocating hardcore original one which is what worries me the most since imo he won't succed here and now with that approach.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
City did not fail to win the CL due to any of the reasons BBZ gives bar having a better option at CF.

Nor does Chelsea have all those elements and won it.

City were better equipped than all other team in CL last season than can argue Chelsea.

Cheslea who did not have a CF that can head, get crosses on or have some huge physical side either.

Pep has been huge success at City and best coach in world. It is small margins why failed in CL and they have not been lacking what is made out.

The best Pep teams cross the ball a lot as he did at Barca with Alves, they are best in world on the break, they allow players freedom to take long range efforts etc all pinned on work rate and as unit.

Best coach out there and has the basic principles that matter far and above some bland tiki taka style as is made out.

BBZ looks at history and tries to force it into a narrative. Ask to pick teams that suit his ideals before the fact and get the Euros where he loved France, Portugal and Germany after group stages... all out in last 16. Asked same before last world cup and it is Germany that have the ideals... out in group.

Yet shits on Spain as being a dated style once lose on pens in semi finals. A game they were the better side creating better chances.

There is no one way of playing to be successful and Pep is far from out dated or ineffective.
 
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Laplacian

Senior Member
Meh, watching those games on an individual basis City usually had the right set up, created enough chances, and played fun/good football. The "fina margins" being chances Sterling, Mahrez, or KdB would usually score in the league, or players like Laporte and Dias having a major brainfart after an almost flawless season of football. Then you have their opponents that would lose 9/10 matches against City under normal conditions, scoring every single chance they get through players that barely score or perform in ligue 1. Pep gets shit on a lot for CL football, but I genuinely don't think his teams have performed badly at all since 17/18. The football and tactics have genuinely been good and spot on. And you'll rarely see me giving Pep a fellatio unlike so many other users on this forum, so it's not coming from bias either.

I genuinely don't know how you can watch the match against Lyon, for example, and conclude Pep lost because his football is "outdated." It's typical BBZ nonsense and shouldn't heed any attention to it whatsoever.
 
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BBZ8800

Senior Member
Meh, watching those games on an individual basis City usually had the right set up, created enough chances, and played fun/good football. The "fina margins" being chances Sterling, Mahrez, or KdB would usually score in the league, or players like Laporte and Dias having a major brainfart after an almost flawless season of football. Then you have their opponents that would lose 9/10 matches against City under normal conditions, scoring every single chance they get through players that barely score or perform in ligue 1. Pep gets shit on a lot for CL football, but I genuinely don't think his teams have performed badly at all since 17/18. The football and tactics have genuinely been good and spot on. And you'll rarely see me giving Pep a fellatio unlike so many other users on this forum, so it's not coming from bias either.

I genuinely don't know how you can watch the match against Lyon, for example, and conclude Pep lost because his football is "outdated." It's typical BBZ nonsense and shouldn't heed any attention to it whatsoever.

Agreed

His team always creates tons of chances when it matters, in big KO matches.
Here are the highlights of their chances from a CL final 2021:
 

Laplacian

Senior Member
Agreed

His team always creates tons of chances when it matters, in big KO matches.
Here are the highlights of their chances from a CL final 2021:

I bet you felt a huge dopamine hit from hitting the reply button. Hey, if that makes your day then so be it. You clearly love arguing for the sake of arguing, regardless of how inane your position might be. Keep at it mate.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
BBZ wont answer questions to give opinions up front anymore as when does gets it horribly wrong and essays proved to be ridiculously wide of the mark.

Will go on at length about how bad Pedri or FDJ are... but hides from giving opinion of how would like to see Barca mid from next season.

Will go on at length slaughtering Pep and even Xavi before he arrives...but wont say who coach should be.

Nothing new.
 

Bobo32

Senior Member
Liverpool can be seen as an inversion of Peps Barcelona (with some similarities too of course). Pep used press resistance, Klopp uses pressing ability. One thing that both teams (and most great teams) had is a coherent vision, where players like Milner, Henderson, Salah, Mane, or Pique, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, or Neville, Scholes, Butt, Fletcher etc etc - players who would or could look good elsewhere too, instead looked like world beaters - because they fit the system and the vision so well.

I believe it is very wrong to think a team and a strategy based on controlling the ball through awareness and technique would be outdated. I also think it is wrong that FC Barcelona would not have the squad and overall know-how to play like that.
 

JohnN

Senior Member
A wise man once said that complaining about an issue without providing a solution is whining.
I don't know if Xavi would be good for us. In fact, I don't know if any manager under these conditions could accomplish anything. But if someone doesn't like him I get it. Just provide the alternative in your opinion and all is good.
 
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