Xavi Hernández

[serghei]

I dig what you just wrote in this another long post and I agree. But I'm gonna go off-topic - we can never judge what Tito had in mind because he battled this fucking cancer throughout the years he was at Barca. At one point he was gone for months for treatment while the team was managed by Jordi Roura, basically meaning the team played without a manager and the great pool of talent in the squad still provided for the triumph in La Liga. When Tito returned he looked a lot worse than before and that demotivated everyone. I know from personal experience because I lost my mother to cancer few years later after Tito and seeing a sick person doesn't motivate you to go Rocky Balboa all of a sudden, rather makes you depressed.

Yea, fucked up example.

 

[DonAK]

Xavi is a smart guy and someone who has followed the turn football have taken the last few years. I think he can adapt and add his own tweaks to his system.

We'll need to help him get the right players though. If it is true that he want a quick CB and a quick winger who's a good dribbler we have to find those players for him. I think a good manager can make the current players play better, but not even God can make a great, consistent player off Ousmane Dembele.

 

[serghei]

Xavi is a smart guy and someone who has followed the turn football have taken the last few years. I think he can adapt and add his own tweaks to his system.

We'll need to help him get the right players though. If it is true that he want a quick CB and a quick winger who's a good dribbler we have to find those players for him.

Exactly, and we need to find ways to look beyond the front page of the newspaper huge names. Surely there must be players in Italy, France, Spain, and Germany who are excellent players but don't cost an arm and a leg.

 

[JamDav1982]

BBZ still claiming Barca played sterile football 'through the middle' with Pep.

Under Pep Barca were best in world on the break, wide players were hugely important team from Alves getting ball in box to wingers scoring goals and given freedom in final third.

It was one of the most complete styles and approaches if not the most complete will ever see from a team.

 

[serghei]

BBZ, since you're talking about could've, would've, here's one for you. Xavi could be even better than Pep. Xavi wouldn't copy Pep anyway, if he plays similar football to Pep it's because he sees football in a similar way. Just as Pep isn't some Cruyff wannabe.

Xavi would not be some copycat lol, you're talking about one of the best, most cerebral, and positionally brilliant players of all time. He has the football mind to become a gifted manager in his own right, it's the other things that are more unknown about him: discipline, charisma, fairness, natural leadership, passion, things that you need to have to be respected and followed by the players.

BBZ still claiming Barca played sterile football 'through the middle' with Pep.

Under Pep Barca were best in world on the break, wide players were hugely important team from Alves getting ball in box to wingers scoring goals and given freedom in final third.

It was one of the most complete styles and approaches if not the most complete will ever see from a team.

Yea, that's crazy.

 

[DonAK]

People seem to have this notion that this sterile sideways slow ass type of possession based football we have played for a while now = what Pep, Cruyff and others like that see/saw as their ideal

Which just isn't true.

Say what you want about Pep, but he would go crazy and probably chuck a shoe at someone SAF to Beckham style if his team played at a snail's pace and couldn't break through anything unless it was down to individual brilliance.

 

[Zidane82]

Football is all about speed of course nowadays


Maybe we will have to evolve more than everyone else to get success

 

[Gaudi]

People seem to have this notion that this sterile sideways slow ass type of possession based football we have played for a while now = what Pep, Cruyff and others like that see/saw as their ideal

Which just isn't true.

Say what you want about Pep, but he would go crazy and probably chuck a shoe at someone SAF to Beckham style if his team played at a snail's pace and couldn't break through anything unless it was down to individual brilliance.

I agree 100%, my problem here is that I'm not convinced Xavi shares that opinion. I worry he'll be to obsessed about possession without realizing possession should only by byproduct of domination.

 

[Windhook]

Wasn't that the topic few pages back that Xavi was not fan of this "keeping the ball by any means necessary" passing it left and right thing?

 

[Gaudi]

Wasn't that the topic few pages back that Xavi was not fan of this "keeping the ball by any means necessary" passing it left and right thing?

I missed it, but that would be encouraging to hear.

 

[khaled_a_d]

And that is bad because?

Some of you guys keep saying this, but never say why it's a bad thing. Whose principles do you think Ajax have laid their foundation on?

I have a question that seems a bit off topic, but what does qualify as a principle? what does qualify as roots of certain way or ideology/DNA in football?
Those terms are used in very flexible ways during argument.
Is Pep way and Crujif way the same principles? Is Lucho a Barca DNA? Naggelsman? Tuchel? Bielsa?

 

[kattanib]

BBZ you are being very negative and pessimistic. Since when did proper Tiki Taka fail us? Yes we found it difficult against some teams, but 95% of the time we dominated.. and I am talking about proper Tiki Taka not bs possession by a nobody manager

Take the L with grace and enjoy a better Barca with Xavi. If you get bored then hopefully you might finally realize that you are supporting the wrong team.

 

[serghei]

I have a question that seems a bit off topic, but what does qualify as a principle? what does qualify as roots of certain way or ideology/DNA in football?
Those terms are used in very flexible ways during argument.
Is Pep way and Crujif way the same principles? Is Lucho a Barca DNA? Naggelsman? Tuchel? Bielsa?

I use a different methodology. Rigid vs fluid styles, starting with the idea that no system is 100% fluid or 100% rigid, but that there is a predominance and a preference for one over the other in every manager.

Rigid suggests a low tendency to mess with the way players occupy positions, no matter if it's attack, defense, or transitions from one to another. The key of this approach is to have players who are extremely specialized in one position, so-called specialist players. Versatile players aren't as valued as in the fluid styles. The poacher: Inzaghi, Crespo. The destroyer: Gatusso. The creator: Rui Costa, Del Piero. Attackers do the attacking phase, defenders do the defending. You don't see strikers dropping too much to mess with the creation part, you won't see fullbacks as pseudo-midfielders too much, but more as the up and down speed merchants that we know from the past.

This is the stuff BBZ loves. The lower levels of fluidity enhance the individuality of each player, hence why speed, tackling ability, height, muscle, each of these become weapons that allow a player to control his space and the opponents that try to claim it. Imagine Busi alone trying to tackle someone, without Xavi, Pedro, Alves pressing that guy from all angles. It would be extremely bad and counterproductive. You'd want a Makelele or a Casemiro for that 10 times out of 10. Someone who could put a firm leg to block the action, someone who could hang around in physical duels, someone to make a cynical tactical foul, etc.

Normally, rigid managers want players to do what they are known to do best, without trying to be too clever. In this case, someone like Gatusso becomes more of an asset in a defensive position than a technical, all-around better player like Busquets, simply because of his more specialized nature.

Fluid is the opposite. Managers found out that it's potentially more beneficial for players to move around. That you can move and alter positions frequently and still make sure you control the areas that matter the most to you.

The fluid system needs players who are very adaptable and are very comfortable playing a multitude of positions. Sometimes, inside only 5 mins, when a pressing trap fails, and the team is playing aggressively, chasing the ball, you can find yourself having to defend a position or block an opponent who is not in your area, simply because that's how the game developed. Fluid systems assume that any player almost can perform the roles required from them. Hence why we start to see more blurred roles, like False 9, with players like Firmino (now Jota), Mertens, Messi, playing the type of role which has them moving around without staying too long in a static position.

Fluid systems dislike overly individualistic players because in fluid systems there is almost no distinction between attack and defense. Every player has a role in both. This is why for example Xavi hates Pogba's profile. He is not a player that has the IQ, the discipline, and the selflessness to do what is required of him in different aspects of the game if the game asks for it. He will always approach the game with the mindset of: "I'm a star. My job is to create, your job is to defend if I lose the ball". No coincidence he played his best football in a rigid team like Juventus under Allegri. This is the main reason why Pep and Klopp are both hesitant to work with superstar personalities, btw. Salah, Mane, these guys are like Pedro and Villa. Not like Neymar. Not like Ronaldinho. Their style is built on the idea that every player will be able to perform multiple roles, which requires a certain mindset, call it humbleness. Players like Neymar and Pogba are too aware of their talent and thus consider that it's somewhat beneath them to do defensive work.

BBZ calls them schoolboys. In reality, they are players who have less star-like attributes but, instead, have better professionalism, work harder, and often show a higher tactical understanding of the game. They can play multiple positions, they respect the plan of the manager, and so on.

Some names now.

Fluid team: Pep, Klopp, Flick, Naggelsmann, Ten Hag, Bielsa, Tuchel, Luis Enrique etc.

Rigid team: Nearly all Italian greats (Lippi, Capello etc.), Simeone, Mourinho, Zidane, Max Allegri, Pochettino, Conte.

Of course, there are also levels and levels. Some share characteristics from both areas (like Tuchel, Pochettino for example). I'd say currently the extremes are Guardiola for the fluid team vs Simeone for the rigid team.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I use a different methodology. Rigid vs fluid styles, starting with the idea that no system is 100% fluid or 100% rigid, but that there is a predominance and a preference for one over the other in every manager.

Ok, let's say that is correct, how it does answer my question?
Fluid football are present since Rinus Michels at least. Do we credit all systems and coaching style that has certain fluidity to him? Or whoever started it before him?
So basically, Crujif, Ten Haag, Pep, Klopp, Naggelsman, Flick, Tuchel, Lucho are all Michels students whose roots and DNA are to him?

 

[Messi983]

Xavi is a smart guy and someone who has followed the turn football have taken the last few years. I think he can adapt and add his own tweaks to his system.

We'll need to help him get the right players though. If it is true that he want a quick CB and a quick winger who's a good dribbler we have to find those players for him. I think a good manager can make the current players play better, but not even God can make a great, consistent player off Ousmane Dembele.

Well, rumours are Xavi (besides Laporta) also wants to renew Dembele so we'll see what he can do with him if he stays.