Yaya Toure

[adil_909]

how does toure not have distribution. he is much better at completing the short passes, which is what a DM for barca should be looking to do considering he has xavi, iniesta, messi, ibra in front of him who can all create magic from nowhere. you need your DM to be solid, not also trying to create magic himself in the process either giving away fouls or losing the ball which is what busquets does. yaya is more solid, and barca need a solid DM more than they need a creative/ballsy DM.

 

[Metaphysical]

how does toure not have distribution. he is much better at completing the short passes, which is what a DM for barca should be looking to do considering he has xavi, iniesta, messi, ibra in front of him who can all create magic from nowhere. you need your DM to be solid, not also trying to create magic himself in the process either giving away fouls or losing the ball which is what busquets does. yaya is more solid, and barca need a solid DM more than they need a creative/ballsy DM.

josep guardiola i sala clearly disagrees with such a blanket statement. and from his actions seems to favour the notion that most of the time a ballsy creative DM is exactly what's needed.

and you'll forgive me, adil_909, if I find his opinions and thoughts on players he works with every day, a club he's been part of for damn near 30 years, and a sport he is obviously a master of easier to believe than yours.

 

[Lemmi]

i enjoy the song, i grant you official 2nd verse status

 

[iced1776]

Meta, "I trust Pep's opinion over yours" is always how you try to end these arguments but Pep is not infallible. He is capable of making bad decisions, and has made plenty (albeit usually small ones), and we personally believe that its worth giving Yaya more playing time to let him reach his peak. I think what adil is saying is spot on, another skinny creative player is not what will help most in the DM position. On many occasions this year his reckless passing and positioning has nearly cost us games.

Although one thing I think that is important to point out is that the way Pep has not used Yaya to his full potential because of the tactical changes he's made to the team. In order to sure up the defense when Alves runs up the side, Yaya plays most of the games back next to the two CB's. I completely understand why he did this because one of the reasons we failed in Frank's last season was we were constantly caught defending with only 3-4 men. However, Yaya is at his best when he is given the freedom to roam just behind Xavi, cutting off potential breaks before they start and giving it back to the playmakers to do their magic.

 

[NebbyCulé]

Yaya > Busi. its safer, we dont need more passing players in the midfield. We got Xaviesta doing the magic passing etc etc.

 

[adil_909]

josep guardiola i sala clearly disagrees with such a blanket statement. and from his actions seems to favour the notion that most of the time a ballsy creative DM is exactly what's needed.

and you'll forgive me, adil_909, if I find his opinions and thoughts on players he works with every day, a club he's been part of for damn near 30 years, and a sport he is obviously a master of easier to believe than yours.

i don't want you to believe my opinions, i am merely sharing them and you can believe what you want. but if you will believe that pep can do no wrong, then one day you are going to be left with egg on your face and will be eating your words because pep is human, and no human is perfect. your response will be, well pep won us 6 trophies so he's pretty damn near perfect, and i would say yes, for barca he might just be. but let's look one of the big reasons why we won 6 trophies last year - yaya. he provided that cushion between our backline and our creative minds up front, went about his job quietly and effectively. opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one, but facts are there for all to see, and pep wouldn't be celebrating his 6 titles if yaya toure wasn't holding together the team last season. as one of our most consistent and important performers, he deserved better than what he got this season, and now he's out of form because of the inexplicable lack of confidence shown in him. the damage to his confidence might already be done, and at the end of the day if he does leave in the summer, it's FC Barcelona that will lose out the most of all.

 

[adil_909]

Yaya > Busi. its safer, we dont need more passing players in the midfield. We got Xaviesta doing the magic passing etc etc.

agreed, but apparently barca fans like meta even want our DMs to be doing backheels and elasticos

 

[Metaphysical]

Meta, "I trust Pep's opinion over yours" is always how you try to end these arguments but Pep is not infallible. He is capable of making bad decisions, and has made plenty (albeit usually small ones), and we personally believe that its worth giving Yaya more playing time to let him reach his peak. I think what adil is saying is spot on, another skinny creative player is not what will help most in the DM position. On many occasions this year his reckless passing and positioning has nearly cost us games.

and yet, it hasn't.

football is about what happens, not what could have happened.

and yeah, pep is not infallible, but like I said, I trust his opinion a whole lot more than I trust yours or anyone else on this forum. I trust his judgement on players he sees every day. I trust his ideas on football way way more than any of you. I may not always disagree with pep, and if he makes a mistake I'll mention it, but I don't blame him for a player underperforming of his own free will.

I mean that's the main reason I bring up "I trust pep" a lot. it's because so much of this forum is people mindlessly criticising pep because they can't understand why a player they like may be underperforming. and because they don't want to blame the player, they blame the manager.

 

[Metaphysical]

i don't want you to believe my opinions, i am merely sharing them and you can believe what you want. but if you will believe that pep can do no wrong, then one day you are going to be left with egg on your face and will be eating your words because pep is human, and no human is perfect. your response will be, well pep won us 6 trophies so he's pretty damn near perfect, and i would say yes, for barca he might just be. but let's look one of the big reasons why we won 6 trophies last year - yaya. he provided that cushion between our backline and our creative minds up front, went about his job quietly and effectively. opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one, but facts are there for all to see, and pep wouldn't be celebrating his 6 titles if yaya toure wasn't holding together the team last season. as one of our most consistent and important performers, he deserved better than what he got this season, and now he's out of form because of the inexplicable lack of confidence shown in him. the damage to his confidence might already be done, and at the end of the day if he does leave in the summer, it's FC Barcelona that will lose out the most of all.

so what's yaya then?

your incessant belief that he should be playing despite ALL evidence to the contrary smacks of the kind of worship you're accusing me of having for pep (despite the fact that I've criticised him when he's made mistakes).

I love it "WE WON THE TREBLE BECAUSE OF YAYA HOLDING US TOGETHER" yeah, yaya was huge. so was gleb. so was messi. everyone who played a part had something to do with the treble and there were at least six players more important to the team than yaya you flipping spanner.

I cannot fathom the hero worship yaya receives despite the fact that he hasn't played brilliantly at DM since april 2009. and don't give me the game-time excuse, he's had plenty game-time.

 

[adil_909]

and yet, it hasn't.

football is about what happens, not what could have happened.

yes, and what did happen when yaya was playing DM and had the manager's full backing? the club won 6 trophies and looked much more comfortable defensively than we do this season. sure, we "could" win this year, but like you are saying, football is about what actually transpires, and it was clear that as a defensive unit we were much more comfortable last year and the biggest change regarding that has to do with busi playing a lot more than yaya this season.

 

[Metaphysical]

I mean that's the main reason I bring up "I trust pep" a lot. it's because so much of this forum is people mindlessly criticising pep because they can't understand why a player they like may be underperforming. and because they don't want to blame the player, they blame the manager.

now that I think about it, the attitude I'm describing here is very perez-esque.

who's to be praised if it works? the players.

who's to be praised if it goes wrong? the coach.

now I remember why I've almost given up on this place twice.

but there are good people here. really good people. there's just more... not good.

it's like gotham city in the dark knight.

 

[adil_909]

so what's yaya then?

your incessant belief that he should be playing despite ALL evidence to the contrary smacks of the kind of worship you're accusing me of having for pep (despite the fact that I've criticised him when he's made mistakes).

I love it "WE WON THE TREBLE BECAUSE OF YAYA HOLDING US TOGETHER" yeah, yaya was huge. so was gleb. so was messi. everyone who played a part had something to do with the treble and there were at least six players more important to the team than yaya you flipping spanner.

I cannot fathom the hero worship yaya receives despite the fact that he hasn't played brilliantly at DM since april 2009. and don't give me the game-time excuse, he's had plenty game-time.

i don't player worship, i barca worship. for barca's sake, i want yaya to play week in and week out. for me, this is what is best for the club. i am defending him passionately because i believe he is being treated unfairly, i'd do the same for any other crucial player that i believe was being mistreated by the management and i would hope you would too. at the end of the day, we are barca fans and like you, i want what is best for barca. however, we both differ in our beliefs on how we can achieve this and i guess c'est la vie.

 

[adil_909]

now that I think about it, the attitude I'm describing here is very perez-esque.

who's to be praised if it works? the players.

who's to be praised if it goes wrong? the coach.

now I remember why I've almost given up on this place twice.

but there are good people here. really good people. there's just more... not good.

it's like gotham city in the dark knight.

oh please cut the histrionics. if you can't handle people disagreeing with your opinions on a public forum then yes, you should give up on this place. don't be a diva meta.

 

[Metaphysical]

yes, and what did happen when yaya was playing DM and had the manager's full backing? the club won 6 trophies and looked much more comfortable defensively than we do this season. sure, we "could" win this year, but like you are saying, football is about what actually transpires, and it was clear that as a defensive unit we were much more comfortable last year and the biggest change regarding that has to do with busi playing a lot more than yaya this season.

I hate to break it to you

but defensively

this season

we are

better

than last year

amazing, that.

plus, crucially, that was LAST season. yaya has had games, he's had runs in the side this season. and you know what? he hasn't turned up. he had all pep's confidence, but he didn't turn up. so pep dropped him for a few games (mostly rotation around the CL) around and what happened? his agent started to question pep's selection in public.

yaya's had his chances and hasn't taken it.

he's got no one to blame but himself.

and maybe his agent.

 

[adil_909]

I hate to break it to you

but defensively

this season

we are

better

than last year

amazing, that.

plus, crucially, that was LAST season. yaya has had games, he's had runs in the side this season. and you know what? he hasn't turned up. he had all pep's confidence, but he didn't turn up. so pep dropped him for a few games (mostly rotation around the CL) around and what happened? his agent started to question pep's selection in public.

yaya's had his chances and hasn't taken it.

he's got no one to blame but himself.

and maybe his agent.

actually no, he has more people than that to blame because last time i checked, people who were crucial in your prior successes are treated with respect and not chucked off to the side. they are given the benefit of the doubt over and over again because they have earned it, they are special, they deserve some slack. when our other stars have gotten out of form, none of them have been discarded as quickly as pep has discarded yaya this season in favor of busquets. who has done a good job deputizing, but a 100% busquets brings less to barca than a 100% yaya, and instead of working on getting yaya to 100% pep just turned straight away to busquets. this is where i disagree with what pep's done this season, and i believe if yaya leaves, then barca will be worse off for it.