Yaya Toure

[adil_909]

and if pep is so fair and virtuous, how come he hasn't permanently replaced zlatan yet? zlatan has played much worse in his position for the last 3 months than yaya has in his position, and yet there are no signs of zlatan getting demoted?? shouldn't bojan be getting many more chances leading the line, because as soon as toure's form started to slide, he was gone and busi was the new man in and he was given all the coach's affection. why's pep being so patient with zlatan?

 

[iced1776]

The better defense might also be explained by Valdes not going through his annual "lose focus and make ridiculous weekly mistakes" campaign yet.

 

[Metaphysical]

oh please cut the histrionics. if you can't handle people disagreeing with your opinions on a public forum then yes, you should give up on this place. don't be a diva meta.

I thrive on people disagreeing with me.

I love debate when it's healthy, logical and coherent.

what I can't stand is idiots blaming the coach or being intensely negative because they love/hate certain players

i don't player worship, i barca worship. for barca's sake, i want yaya to play week in and week out. for me, this is what is best for the club. i am defending him passionately because i believe he is being treated unfairly, i'd do the same for any other crucial player that i believe was being mistreated by the management and i would hope you would too. at the end of the day, we are barca fans and like you, i want what is best for barca. however, we both differ in our beliefs on how we can achieve this and i guess c'est la vie.

if you want what's best for barca you'd want what wins games and leads to good football. which, this season, is busquets starting. you're living in a dream-world regarding yaya. he's not been as good as last year at all this season despite ample opportunity.

I would LOVE him to sort his head out and play brilliantly again (I wrote him a song earlier today ffs) but that doesn't look like happening. and I'm not gonna criticise the management and players that are getting us results by start saying that, despite all evidence to the contrary, yaya would make us better.

ffs.

 

[Jordzibob]

Yaya has been playing poor at the moment, but imo when he plays he hasnt looked worse than Busquets, who in recent weeks has just made a cataclysmic amount of errors, almost as if Marquez was playing in his position. He's really dropped his level this year, I dont know why. I'd prefer to play Yaya until Sergi sorts his game out anyway. =] Then sign Essien. Just to piss Meta off, lol.

 

[adil_909]

I would LOVE him to sort his head out and play brilliantly again (I wrote him a song earlier today ffs) but that doesn't look like happening. and I'm not gonna criticise the management and players that are getting us results by start saying that, despite all evidence to the contrary, yaya would make us better.

ffs.

I thrive on ppl disagreeing with me as well, as 90% of this forum seems to do on most issues, but that's all well and good because i wouldn't have gotten to where i am today in life if it wasn't for overturning the odds. i love a good challenge when the odds are firmly against me.

you're saying you would LOVe for him to sort out his head and play brilliantly again, but how can you do that without accepting the reason for him being the way that he is. it's like when israel constantly blames the palestinians for attacks on their territory. yes, the palestinians are to blame, but the root cause of those attacks are the desperation they face due to a constant denial of basic human rights to them by israel. for every effect, there is a cause and you cannot change behavior without addressing the underlying cause. yaya was a monster when he was the started DM at this club, fact. if you really want yaya to get his head right and reach the heights he was reaching last season, then he needs to be treated with the respect he deserves and busquets needs to be demoted to yaya's sub and not the other way around. because regardless of anything else, yaya is one of the best DMs in the world and busquets is a promising youngster. both deserve to be treated as such, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Metaphysical]

actually no, he has more people than that to blame because last time i checked, people who were crucial in your prior successes are treated with respect and not chucked off to the side. they are given the benefit of the doubt over and over again because they have earned it, they are special, they deserve some slack. when our other stars have gotten out of form, none of them have been discarded as quickly as pep has discarded yaya this season in favor of busquets. who has done a good job deputizing, but a 100% busquets brings less to barca than a 100% yaya, and instead of working on getting yaya to 100% pep just turned straight away to busquets. this is where i disagree with what pep's done this season, and i believe if yaya leaves, then barca will be worse off for it.

you act as if yaya got the hook after his first poor match.

he played just as much as busquets did up to the winter break. he had AMPLE games and AMPLE confidence to refind his 08/09 form and he didn't manage it. he was only really discarded after his horrendous games vs. xerez and stuttgart. otherwise he's either been rotated with busquets*, in angola, or injured.

*pep rotated the two of them a lot at the start of last season too (not this much, but busquets wasn't as good) to keep them fresh and then second half of the season yaya played basically every game. there was no reason to think that wasn't going to happen again, but yaya's agent openly questioned pep's tactics in the media.

that shit will not stand.

and yaya fans need to cut out the persecution complex. the big man has been given a fair shake this season and simply hasn't made the most of his chances.

and if pep is so fair and virtuous, how come he hasn't permanently replaced zlatan yet? zlatan has played much worse in his position for the last 3 months than yaya has in his position, and yet there are no signs of zlatan getting demoted?? shouldn't bojan be getting many more chances leading the line, because as soon as toure's form started to slide, he was gone and busi was the new man in and he was given all the coach's affection. why's pep being so patient with zlatan?

CRUCIALLY, as I said, yaya was never really "given the hook" - see above for explanation.

as for his patience with zlatan - it may have something to do with zlatan being a new signing? one that's still settling in to the country/league/lifestyle/football? he's not a player who has already been here 2 full seasons and is well settled in catalan life. he's a new signing, so he needs games to adapt otherwise he's not going to get any better.

I mean come on, was that even a serious point?

 

[Metaphysical]

I thrive on ppl disagreeing with me as well, as 90% of this forum seems to do on most issues, but that's all well and good because i wouldn't have gotten to where i am today in life if it wasn't for overturning the odds. i love a good challenge when the odds are firmly against me.

you're saying you would LOVe for him to sort out his head and play brilliantly again, but how can you do that without accepting the reason for him being the way that he is. it's like when israel constantly blames the palestinians for attacks on their territory. yes, the palestinians are to blame, but the root cause of those attacks are the desperation they face due to a constant denial of basic human rights to them by israel. for every effect, there is a cause and you cannot change behavior without addressing the underlying cause. yaya was a monster when he was the started DM at this club, fact. if you really want yaya to get his head right and reach the heights he was reaching last season, then he needs to be treated with the respect he deserves and busquets needs to be demoted to yaya's sub and not the other way around. because regardless of anything else, yaya is one of the best DMs in the world and busquets is a promising youngster. both deserve to be treated as such, nothing more and nothing less.

seriously, now you want to pick the team based on reputations?

why don't you just go support real madrid, yeah?

honestly man, listen to yourself!

yaya has been given games. he's been given time. he's never at any point apart from maybe the game after xerez (I forget what it was) and the malaga game this weekend been given the hook for busquets. there's always been a reason - either rotation (seriously), injury (he has been injured a lot) or that whole being in africa for a month thing.

 

[adil_909]

i have work to do, i'm out of here. meta, for the sake of barca, i think we can both agree that a 100% fit yaya is more beneficial than a 100% fit busquets. we both want the same thing - for barca to do another clean sweep this year, and the next year, and the year after that. we just differ in our long-term approaches to this success. i prefer a model that works and to invest energy fixing it, you prefer to reinvent the wheel and gamble on how busquets will develop. let's hope for barca's sake that pep picks the right way forward!

 

[adil_909]

seriously, now you want to pick the team based on reputations?

why don't you just go support real madrid, yeah?

honestly man, listen to yourself!

yaya has been given games. he's been given time. he's never at any point apart from maybe the game after xerez (I forget what it was) and the malaga game this weekend been given the hook for busquets. there's always been a reason - either rotation (seriously), injury (he has been injured a lot) or that whole being in africa for a month thing.

don't accuse me of supporting that scum. ever. i will not be responsible for the insults that fly your way if you do again.

 

[Metaphysical]

if you don't want me to tell you to go support real then don't talk like a perez-following madridista.

and you will be responsible. you're typing on an internet forum, not talking with me in a pub.

also I don't want to reinvent the wheel (though you cannot sit still on success) but rather, I want us to go with what works.

this season, so far, that is busquets.

yaya will get games - he has done all season - and I hope he rediscovers his form (it's not a fitness issue, he was fit at the start of the season and played plenty to stay fit, he just has no form) because his solidity will be really useful in big away games, and we have a lot of big away games coming up.

 

[beef-supreme]

I agree with everything you say Meta, but the only thing I think you're missing out on is that this Yaya-lessness started not this season but last. At the tail end of last season Pep either didn't play Yaya or put him in obscure positions because of necessity. He still performed well, and Yaya expressed his discontent at being played out of position. I think that's the key - there's something personal here and not just performance based.

 

[zanela]

I agree with everything you say Meta, but the only thing I think you're missing out on is that this Yaya-lessness started not this season but last. At the tail end of last season Pep either didn't play Yaya or put him in obscure positions because of necessity. He still performed well, and Yaya expressed his discontent at being played out of position. I think that's the key - there's something personal here and not just performance based.

At no point did Yaya express discontent. In fact, he has shown to be willing to play out of position to help the team.

http://www.fcbarcelona.com/web/english/noticies/futbol/temporada08-09/05/n090515105057.html

So what would he make of it if Guardiola decided to play him at centre back again? “It would be an honour to play at centre back. It’s not easy to play for Barça, because all the players here are of such enormous quality. But only eleven can be on the pitch at one time, and just being one of them in the final would be very important for me.”

 

[Cule Angles]

i have work to do, i'm out of here. meta, for the sake of barca, i think we can both agree that a 100% fit yaya is more beneficial than a 100% fit busquets. we both want the same thing - for barca to do another clean sweep this year, and the next year, and the year after that. we just differ in our long-term approaches to this success. i prefer a model that works and to invest energy fixing it, you prefer to reinvent the wheel and gamble on how busquets will develop. let's hope for barca's sake that pep picks the right way forward!

100% fitness is nothing if it isn't matched by 100% commitment. With Busquets we have a more solid defence and greater stability as our defensive record shows this season, Yaya at his best is capable of bringing different things to the table but his head isn't in the right place for him to do that so he isn't getting the gametime.

At no point did Yaya express discontent. In fact, he has shown to be willing to play out of position to help the team.

http://www.fcbarcelona.com/web/english/noticies/futbol/temporada08-09/05/n090515105057.html

So what would he make of it if Guardiola decided to play him at centre back again? “It would be an honour to play at centre back. It’s not easy to play for Barça, because all the players here are of such enormous quality. But only eleven can be on the pitch at one time, and just being one of them in the final would be very important for me.”

That article's from May, the discontent came later.

 

[Hussain]

I enjoyed reading the last few pages , Yaya - Sergio issue is one of the endless discussions between Barca fans.


IMO most fans prefer Yaya, and they accuse Pep for starting Sergio even when Yaya is not fit.
It started last season , Yaya played while injured at the end of 2007/2008 season then he went under disc surgery . Pep preferred to rotate between Yaya and Sergio at the beginning of last season and that was for 2 reasons , and you can add a third . First , Yaya is not completely fit and he is not back to form after back surgery . It was for his favor to have some rest and recover slowly . Pep also wanted to give Sergio experience and the benefit of his impressive form in his debut with the first team . At that time , Yaya's agent was visiting every interested club and trying to win a starting spot and a new contract , and you can't say that its because of lacking playing time because its obvious that Yaya was just back from his injury .


This season Yaya was a starter in the first third of the season , in every important match which should tell Yaya how much confidence Pep has in him . He played in the Spanish super cup , UEFA super cup , CL including inter draw and Rubin Cazan loss, Valencia away game , but he was rotated in La Liga . He was out of form , just like most of our key players last season. Messi , Iniesta , Henry , Pique, and Alves were away from their best , Pep backed them for awhile , and they regained some of their good performances . I remember when Pep sent an alarm to all of them in Mallorca home game when he benched Alves , Xavi, Iniesta and Messi ! No one should rely on his reputation , the coach will back you for sometime , but not forever. Pique is a known case , when he underperformed for no reason Pep didn't hesitate to bench him , even though he is a youth product.


Yaya did not understand what Pep wanted , he did not want to fight for his seat , he thought that he deserves to play continuously regardless of how good he performs . Pep didn't show any lack of confidence in him , Yaya had to look to the signs of confidence that Pep showed rather than exaggerating the misinterpreted signs of no confidence . Yaya started ALL of our IMPORTANT matches , which is enough for any player to concentrate on his work , but unfortunately he wanted to play every game and not to be rotated with a young player who shouldn't be compared to Yaya, in his opinion.


Yaya was under performing , yet he started 18 matches tell now . He was injured twice -at least , was out for a month in Africa , roughly 9 games , unless Pep is accused for not starting Yaya while he is in Africa !! So , he played 18 matches , out for 9 , and benched in 13 games. Sergio wasn't injured but he was suspended for a match , played 25 games , benched in 14 matches.


My point is , Pep showed his confidence in Yaya , but Yaya wants continuous confidence in him and with no terms , which is not the case for any player in team . I bet that Pep will bench any player who continues to under perform for almost 65% of the season . Zlatan ? He will take his FULL time to adapt , but after that , it might be different story .

 

[Cule Angles]

Very astute post Hussain!