1 - Marc-Andre ter Ansplant

[BBZ8800]

No where did I say, he wants to leave. Way to twist my words.

Sorry if it sounded that way.
I am not here for twisting words or anything, let's talk about our team and our players.

Anyway, my point was, that not everything will always come easily. For example:
1. referees will sometimes be against you
-- sometimes you need to be 20% better than Real Madrid to win a championship
2. some teams will have too high grass on their stadium to ruin your passing game
-- you will have to find a way to win despite that
3. some players will constantly do dirty little tricks/fouls (on Messi, for example)
-- or some players will constantly say bad things about your race, your country, your mother, your girlfriend and similar things
= you have to keep calm and play and score goals despite everything (and not to lose your nerves like Balotelli does)

I want to say, if you are a real winner, sometimes you have to play with 120% to win a first place.

The same is with players.
1. coaches will sometimes prefer another player on your position
2. fans and media will sometimes prefer a local youth player on your position (for example, Bartra, Deulofeu and similar)
3. sometimes you will get injured
4. sometimes you will be unlucky
5. also, if you come to a new team as a big signing, the media and fans will expect good games from you from the day 1
This is just how it works with star players.

So, yes, Mats is a huge talent, huge star, huge signing.
Media and fans want things from him right away.
Also, he was unlucky with injury and with Bravo's form.

But my point is, if you are a real star player, a real winner and a true champion, you will eventually win against all possible obstacles.

Also, I don't mean that anyone said that Mats wants to leave.
But IF he really wants to leave or will want to leave one day, then he wasn't a Barca material.
Either in skills, either mentally.

Some players have both=skills+mental strength to win against all obstacles.
Some players have=skills, but they crash one day when problems arise (from this or that reason. Either because of internal or external factors, but that doesn't matter in the end.)

 

[suckabov]

No where did I say, he wants to leave. Way to twist my words.
Let me explain it better, or in a way that may be more comprehensible to you.

In life, there are:
1. external factors
2. internal factors
Both of which need to click for you to succeed.

Mats, in my opinion, has the talent and the mental fibre to make it.
I'm sure he was aware of the series of obstacles he'd 've to face before coming here.
That said, the spanish top 2 don't wait or offer extended 'buffer time' towards employees with no leverage at the club. There are hostile external elements facing Mats, more than normal to a player, and that has been evident ever since his transfer saga began. And even if tS puts up a collosal resistance if he wanted to, it will still come short because of these external factors, influential at that.

I think you're painting the external factors a lot darker than they are.

- "not Lucho's signing": Before Lucho played him against PSG, I'd have agreed with this, but now I don't see how this has any influence. Ignoring MAtS performance in this match, choosing him to be the CL keeper this season is a big sign of trust, perhaps even more so than choosing him to be the ll keeper would be, but that's very debatable & depends on whether you think starting consistently in la liga is harder than consistently playing in the CL or vice versa. So far however I don't see any signs that Lucho is knowingly treating Bravo better or more favourably, instead only signs that Lucho opts for a rotating system that has one keeper per competition, however senseful that is. Whether or not this is more beneficial to the LL than to the CL keeper is another, more general question, and Lucho has made his thoughts about it relatively clear (namely that it isn't), but even if one gk has it easier thanks to this, that's definitely not intended that way by the manager (otherwise that would mean he's risking important CL games just to make life harder for his less-favoured goalie)

- Mistrust of media/fans: This isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Being ripped apart by the press after the clangers he's made is relatively normal and not really down to him being him. It's true that there was a huge Courtois-bias when he was signed (and smaller things like being portrayed as a shit keeper in Crackovia) and that when Bravo was signed the press was more on his side, but ever since pre-season started the consensus in the press (and MD's and Sport's comments sections) was a LOT friendlier. Especially when Bravo made that clanger against Napoli and after he made that arrogant RAC1 interview, MD especially was very friendly towards MAtS and the readers' comments were in the tone of "we want MAtS", "Bravo is the inferior yet more arrogant keeper" (re: his RAC1 statements). I particularly remember a Sport article after the first game of the season which argued that despite Bravo starting la liga, MAtS should or would be the long-term no. 1 and the majority of comments agreed (click). The press will always be fickle; let MAtS have a good game and they'll be swayed easily.

- "Neither a catalan/cantenaro": On the long run, the same applies for Bravo.

So all in all I don't think his position is that bad. To use the BBZ8800 strategy, there are 3 scenarios

1. Lucho persists with his keeper rotation because he's stubborn, means MAtS will keep playing games (even if performing badly)
2. Lucho sees the light and drops or changes his keeper rotation, which could mean that from now on he gives MAtS gametime in smaller la liga games to acclimatise on top of or instead of CL games, or makes Bravo the CL keeper, or makes them share the competitions depending on the trickiness of the game, or whatever other possibility there is where MAtS gets non-"top game" game time
3. Lucho loses all trust in MAtS and punishes him with a two-season-long benching or then sharing the CdR with Masip

Only in the third scenario I'd say his future at Barça is at stake, and that happens to be the (in my eyes) least probabe scenario.

Wrt internal factors, I think MAtS is mentally stronger than some think. Ofc he's young and it's the first time he's in the position he's in now, but if the way he's presented himself in the past (and the huge, huge b/o fee he has agreed on despite being aware of how hard it would be at FCB) is anything to go by, he won't give in that easily.

Anyway, bad performance from him. He really needs gametime in smaller games to improve his communication with the team. I don't think Bravo is the better keeper overall but in this game he'd potentially have fared better due to his superior communication w the back four.

 

[Ghost]

@Fanboys: Stop being fanboys.

@Haters: Give the guy a break.

 

[Kerrybai]

@Zanela You have far too little evidence to suggest that he won't last 2 seasons. He'll be second choice this season and number 1 next season, that's the most likely scenario.

 

[Chainsaw]

Bravo will only last as the #1 as long as he deserves it. And the clean sheet in La Liga so far suggest that he won't be dropped anytime soon til his next blunder(s). Same goes for MatS. One mistake in one match doesn't automatically translate into "he'll be the second choice this season". I personally think once Barca start conceding goals in the league the count down for dropping Bravo for MatS will begin.

 

[zanela]

But my point is, if you are a real star player, a real winner and a true champion, you will eventually win against all possible obstacles.

Thats a very romantic way of looking at it. Whilst it may hold true in some cases, the professional world is cruel, and there are elements you've no control on, regardless of your talent or intent.

And if a player wants to leave, that doesn't automatically mean he wasn't capable enough, or in this case, as you say Barca material.

Take for instance the madrid example,
Logic dictates it should 've been Casillas who should 've made way for Keylor not Lopez, but it was the latter. Was it because D.Lopez was not madrid material, or he was mentally weak and thus asked to leave? On the contrary.

There are elements that can't be disregarded, and do have a bigger say on the working of things than we'd like, in this case a player's longevity at a club. Asking to leave is not directly proportional to lack of required skill, nor is staying at a top club (pedro, oliguer, pinto past his expiry date) conclusive of abundant talent.

--------
@suckabov,

1) Starting in the CL is not necessarily a sign of trust. It could be that L.E didn't want to backtrack over his rotation claims, and relied on his back-4 to bail him out once again. The sign of trust would be if L.E persists playing him despite his errors, and that remains to be seen.
2) You could be right.
3) Its true to Bravo as well. Except in his case, he's a known quantity. His body of work (good or bad) is more familiar to the Catalan/Barca world, and he's coming at the back of his world cup exploits. He has earned respect by way of seniority and experience. So he has the leverage, unlike mats, barring a minority, is not familiar of his talent or what he's capable of. So the "buffer time" afforded to him would be relatively smaller.

However,
It could well be that my prophesy is more based on "gut feeling" than more on reasoning/evidence. And I don't expect anyone to agree with me. We'll see in 2 years time. But I'm confident I'll be anointed in the BF's Hall of fame.

 

[Chainsaw]

It could well be that my prophesy is more based on "gut feeling" than more on reasoning/evidence.

I think this is. You're thinking too much into what's happening ATM.

 

[zanela]

I think this is. You're thinking too much into what's happening ATM.

That doesn't mean my prophesy can't come to fruition.

 

[Chainsaw]

That doesn't mean my prophesy can't come to fruition.

Your recent achievement in jinxing doesn't rule that out indeed.

 

[namaria]

Ter Stegen have received 6 shots on target in his 1 competitive game for FCB, one fewer than Bravo in his 7 matches

 

[DennyCrane]

Ter Stegen have received 6 shots on target in his 1 competitive game for FCB, one fewer than Bravo in his 7 matches

Does that include the approximately 9000 times the ball hit the post in the matches Bravo played or are those considered off-target by the stat dudes ?

 

[Luftstalag14]

This meltdown is not necessarily.

Yes MAtS had a poor game yesterday, yes he could have done better. But this is not atypical of him though, for those of you who have followed him when he played for Gladbach, you know he is very solid most of the time, however he does tend to make mistakes, some of which are pretty glaring. Coupled with the fact that he hasn't played in a while and he hasn't had the time to establish understanding and rapport with the defenders, mistakes like yesterdays are bound to happen. And mark my words, they will happen again.

MAtS is a very good goalkeeper who has nice potential, but he is not one of the top goalkeepers at the moment. We should set our expectations realistically. I shrugged when some people said he is better than Neuer and Courtois, he is not, far from it. But he is still young and he has time to adapt and improve. Both MAtS himself and us fans should be patient.

He needs to be given more minutes to play, to establish rapport and confidence.

 

[Irish_Cules]

Joey Barton was quick to point out that he scored straight from a corner against him a couple years ago.

 

[DonAK]

Joey Barton was quick to point out that he scored straight from a corner against him a couple years ago.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Come on, one bad game and we are already talking about him leaving? That is just ridiculous. MAtS is no GOAT, despite the hyperbole, cut him some slack and give him time to learn and grow.

Unless MAtS sustains a career-threatening injury or regresses significantly, I don't see why he wouldn't be our goalkeeper in the many years to come.