Daniel Alves

[Flavia]

Since stric has been harping on John Terry's supposed loyalty towards Chelsea, I decided to do a l'il research, and I came up with this:

John Terry makes £150,000/wk + appearance related bonuses
Dani Alves makes £120,000/wk



Source:Here See nothing about a pay-cut.

A footballers career's short, and priortising finances is logical and understandable. As an employee, Alves has completed his contractual obligations, and is free to tend to his interests. A corporation like Barca can withstand a loss in manpower, or finances, but an individual is a vulnerable entity, and must make smart monetary decisions. As for loyalty, it goes both ways.

So he makes more than Alves. Stric's arguments just vanished now. If that for Terry is ok, why less for Alves isn't?

 

[Stric]

Well, I apologize for sharing wrong information, then. The articles I read stated very clearly that Terry took a paycut + appearance-related bonuses. It was obviously false. My bad. I have no problem admitting that once I'm proven wrong.

However, I do not see your point in comparing the two of them in terms of how much they make. It's not a matter of absolute numbers, of course Terry is going to make more at Chelsea than Alves is at FCB to begin with, he is their captain and most senior player. Again, I might have been wrong about Terry's paycut, but that argument of yours makes absolutely no sense. It's about before-and-after percentage and ratio of one player, and comparing that to the other, and not about what exact number player A makes in comparison to player B. I admit to being wrong about Terry, but I won't pretend here that there's any logic in "so he makes more than Alves".

It's also convenient how you avoid to comment on the fact that even that article says that Terry caved in and took a 1-year deal, even though he wanted a longer one.

Any by the way, that same article claims that Man City wanted to offer him 200,000 a week, so your other argument about "Who would want Terry anyway" is also invalid.

 

[Flavia]

Well, I apologize for sharing wrong information, then. The articles I read stated very clearly that Terry took a paycut + appearance-related bonuses. It was obviously false. My bad. I have no problem admitting that once I'm proven wrong.

However, I do not see your point in comparing the two of them in terms of how much they make. It's not a matter of absolute numbers, of course Terry is going to make more at Chelsea than Alves is at FCB to begin with, he is their captain and most senior player. Again, I might have been wrong about Terry's paycut, but that argument of yours makes absolutely no sense. It's about before-and-after percentage and ratio of one player, and comparing that to the other, and not about what exact number player A makes in comparison to player B. I admit to being wrong about Terry, but I won't pretend here that there's any logic in "so he makes more than Alves".

It's also convenient how you avoid to comment on the fact that even that article says that Terry caved in and took a 1-year deal, even though he wanted a longer one.

It's also convenient how you dismiss the fact that the club using Alves for one year and then throwing him away is not ok, and that if Alves is loyal he should accept it. As if he is a thing to be used in this moment the club is facing a transfer ban, and only have inferior players to replace him. Terry caved in probably because he wouldn't find another club paying him 150.000. But Alves wanting to keep his 120000 is preposterous.

 

[ZenI]

Sign him up for 2 more years. If he leaves, don't be bitter - it's own fault.

 

[Stric]

It's also convenient how you dismiss the fact that the club using Alves for one year and then throwing him away is somehow ok, and that if Alves is loyal he should accept it. As if he is a thing to be used in this moment the club is facing a transfer ban, and only have inferior players to replace him. Terry caved in probably because he wouldn't find another club paying him 150.000. But Alves wanting to keep his 120000 is preposterous.

"Using him for one year", seriously? He personally signed a contract in 2011 that would keep him here until 2015. How is that "using him for one year then throwing him away"? The contract was always valid until 2015, the club didn't just pull it out of their ass once they heard about the transfer ban. He has a valid contract that he agreed to sign, and he has an obligation to fulfill it unless they mutually agree to terminate it. Nobody is exploiting him.

 

[Flavia]

"Using him for one year", seriously? He personally signed a contract in 2011 that would keep him here until 2015. How is that "using him for one year then throwing him away"? The contract was always valid until 2015, the club didn't just pull it out of their ass once they heard about the transfer ban. He has a valid contract that he agreed to sign, and he has an obligation to fulfill it unless they mutually agree to terminate it. Nobody is exploiting him.

I'm talking about you saying if he were loyal he'd accept the one year extension to 2016 with a paycut, which would be detrimental to his career. You said it's disrespectful of him to try to keep his wages for 3 years, and it's not(actually you said he wants better wages, but he doesn't). What the club offered him was this: one more year with lesser wages. Then you proceeded to use Terry as an example of loyalty, which zanela disproved.

 

[raskolnikov]

Alves is very right in leaving if he decides to, club showed no love, was never in a rush and clearly wants to keep him to overlap the ban epriod after which he can fuck of anyway, better get that 3+ big money contract in Paris then.

 

[Stric]

I'm talking about you saying if he were loyal he'd accept the one year extension to 2016 with a paycut, which would be detrimental to his career. You said it's disrespectful of him to try to keep his wages for 3 years, and it's not. What the club offered him was this: one more year with lesser wages. Then you proceeded to use Terry as an example of loyalty, which zanela disproved.

And I still think so, and disproving the Terry thing won't make me change my mind. Go find yourself another example if that's what you need. If the numbers are right, Kobe Bryant took a paycut, Tom Brady allegedly took a massive paycut to help the Patriots, etc. Alves accepting a paycut and a shorter extension at his age would be perfectly reasonable, considering he's no longer the player he was in 2011 when he originally signed the contract. A 3-year extension with the same wages is, in fact, possible, if the club agrees to it, but it wouldn't happen because it is reasonable or the right move, but because the club would be strongarmed into doing it. Granted, it would be their own fault for bringing themselves into that kind of situation in the first place, but it doesn't change the fact that a 3-year extension with the same wages would normally be out of the question.

 

[Flavia]

And I still think so, and disproving the Terry thing won't make me change my mind. Go find yourself another example if that's what you need. If the numbers are right, Kobe Bryant took a paycut, Tom Brady allegedly took a massive paycut to help the Patriots, etc. Alves accepting a paycut and a shorter extension at his age would be perfectly reasonable, considering he's no longer the player he was in 2011 when he originally signed the contract. A 3-year extension with the same wages is, in fact, possible, if the club agrees to it, but it wouldn't happen because it is reasonable or the right move, but because the club would be strongarmed into doing it. Granted, it would be their own fault for bringing themselves into that kind of situation in the first place, but it doesn't change the fact that a 3-year extension with the same wages would normally be out of the question.

You dislike Alves too much to change your mind, I got that already. Maybe he'd take a paycut if not for only one year, have you considered that? But what the club offered was pretty bad. After telling him his time was up, they basically said "hey, we need you for another year: ban, douglas and stuff, but we don't want to pay you for it. Just to use you for one year, then you go away. Deal?".

No player would accept that.

 

[Vlom]

The club handled the Alves case like shit, big surprise !

I completely understand if he told them to fuck off if he has a good offer elsewhere, he's been more than patient and clearly showed he'd rather stay, but they didn't even bother to talk with him or anything, leaving him hanging.. really really bad managing, but hey, no surprise!

 

[Stric]

You dislike Alves too much to change your mind, I got that already. Maybe he'd take a paycut if not for only one year, have you considered that? But what the club offered was pretty bad. After telling him his time was up, they basically said "hey, we need you for another year: ban, douglas and stuff, but we don't want to pay you for it. Just to use you for one year, then you go away. Deal?".

No player would accept that.

Many players actually would. Especially those who really want to retire at the club. Just not those who think too highly of themselves. Short extensions (and pay cuts, for that matter) are perfectly normal for players who are over 30. I don't see what the problem about it is. He's 32, why in the hell would we want to offer him a longer extension, even if he accepted a paycut? He'd be 34-35 by the time it ended, and we'd still be paying his wages, even if they were lower. That's just charity. If it was Iniesta or Xavi tomorrow who were in this situation (both of whom I don't dislike in the slightest), I would also think it would be reasonable for them to accept pay cuts and shorter extensions. And I bet they would be less reluctant to accept them than Alves.

Besides, everything we're saying here is pure speculation. Unless there was info shown on the official website, none of us knows exactly what the club offered, and what Alves demanded.

 

[Flavia]

Many players actually would. Especially those who really want to retire at the club. Just not those who think too highly of themselves. Short extensions (and pay cuts, for that matter) are perfectly normal for players who are over 30. I don't see what the problem about it is. He's 32, why in the hell would we want to offer him a longer extension, even if he accepted a paycut? He'd be 34-35 by the time it ended, and we'd still be paying his wages, even if they were lower. That's just charity. If it was Iniesta or Xavi tomorrow who were in this situation (both of whom I don't dislike in the slightest), I would also think it would be reasonable for them to accept pay cuts and shorter extensions. And I bet they would be less reluctant to accept them than Alves.

Besides, everything we're saying here is pure speculation. Unless there was info shown on the official website, none of us knows exactly what the club offered, and what Alves demanded.

Name one player... Because I don't remember any. Xavi is leaving to get 30m at qatar. Yours is a very romantic and naive view. Alves has better offers, and so far this board showed him no respect. Loyalty really goes both ways. It's not only the player who has to show loyalty, the club has to do it too.

 

[Stric]

Just like he left for the MLS... It might happen, but at this point, it's nothing but media speculation, just like before.

 

[Flavia]

Just like he left for the MLS... It might happen, but at this point, it's nothing but media speculation, just like before.

Where are the players? And Xavi traveled to qatar today, so this time is more than speculation.

 

[serghei]

What I make of Stric's comments is that the way Alves used the ban to pressure the club to give him the 3-year contract he wants is immoral, even if he didn't cause the ban. In a way, it is. But Alves has shown numerous times to be a player with personality, that will not be easily subdued. Him wanting that contract has nothing to do with his love for the club, which should be pretty much clear after 7 years with us. It's about his pride as a player. And regardless of what anyone thinks he still is a top top player. He'd walk in that PSG team. WALK. Fuck the age, he could play very well until he's 35. Need I remind you that Sylvinho played in a CL final at 35 and did it great? No. The way people talk about age these days, you'd say players die after they turn 34 or something. Xavi came on in the clasico at 35 and instantly calmed down the game.