England

[Maradona37]

I didn't say you said they were better players did I?

You absolutely don't need technical wizards to dominate a match. Also claiming no one knew why Gerrard and Lampard didn't work together? It was well known and always spoken about how we should only start one of them, also Scholes should have been the focus in the midfield, incredibly technically gifted. Again though, poor management to not see this.

I know you didn't.

Exactly, should never have played two of them, and played either Scholes (not that he did much when he was selected before, even in his favourite position) or Carrick (the poverty man's Xavi or Busquets, but a better fit than Gerrard or Lampard despite being an inferior player).

It's about balance.

Explain to me how you dominate a match without players who can pass, dribble, take a great first touch? I don't mean empty meaningless possession anyway, I mean actually asserting authority over the other team? You can't do that playing defensively or just with athleticism.

I don't think it was poor management - it was the media forcing and bullying the managers into playing the biggest names. Like now with Bellingham seemingly immune to being subbed (though to be fair, Kane was).

 

[Maradona37]

Anyway, I don't wanna argue with you, Rory - I consider you a good and intelligent poster, and it's just a difference of opinion and me being forthright in how I think about football.

Cheers.

 

[Rory]

Explain to me how you dominate a match without players who can pass, dribble, take a great first touch? I don't mean empty meaningless possession anyway, I mean actually asserting authority over the other team? You can't do that playing defensively or just with athleticism.

Not being a technical wizard =/= can't pass/dribble or take a great first touch so that's not really a fair question is it? There's varying levels of technical ability. Klopps liverpool dominated many games including against Pep's city, Milner, Henderson, Fabinho is hardly a brilliantly technical midfield. It's how you set up a team that decides if you can dominate a game.

 

[Maradona37]

Not being a technical wizard =/= can't pass/dribble or take a great first touch so that's not really a fair question is it? There's varying levels of technical ability. Klopps liverpool dominated many games including against Pep's city, Milner, Henderson, Fabinho is hardly a brilliantly technical midfield. It's how you set up a team that decides if you can dominate a game.

Yeah fair point - I phrased it too strongly and too black and white.

I just meant, in general, a superior technical side will have a much greater chance of dominating an inferior one throughout the 90 mins. And the teams regarded as the best ever are generally high possession, pass and move sides.

Liverpool did dominate, but frankly their levels of energy, pressing and chaos were freakish, and above anything that this English team can do in terms of intensity. Their forwards and centre-backs were also more technical (other than Kane), and their goalkeepers is far better with his feet than Pickers. They're a bit of an anomaly in that sense. But I take on board your point, and agree it's a good counterpoint to mine.

 

[Maradona37]

The overall point is that Spain are one of the very few national teams who have the synergy, drilling and passing and cohesion of a club side. That's probably why they looked so good at this tournament and their hardest game was against probably the second best team in the tournament in terms of possession play, Germany. The Germans were the only ones who could negate it to a degree and live with their wingers.

People said Spain and Germany were the 'best teams to watch'. What they mean by that is they play good, cohesive, passing style of football with patterns of play and end product at the end. Reinforces my point that possession teams are most dominant.

 

[soul24rage]

The future is bright for England

 

[malvolio]

The overall point is that Spain are one of the very few national teams who have the synergy, drilling and passing and cohesion of a club side. That's probably why they looked so good at this tournament and their hardest game was against probably the second best team in the tournament in terms of possession play, Germany. The Germans were the only ones who could negate it to a degree and live with their wingers.

People said Spain and Germany were the 'best teams to watch'. What they mean by that is they play good, cohesive, passing style of football with patterns of play and end product at the end. Reinforces my point that possession teams are most dominant.

It wouldn't have been a contest if Spain had a competent striker and not Morata the donkey. But on the other hand there are no good strikers around.

 

[Maradona37]

It wouldn't have been a contest if Spain had a competent striker and not Morata the donkey. But on the other hand there are no good strikers around.

Yeah maybe. Just my point that Spain playing as a club team is why they're able to dominate less cohesive sides. Even if France generally have better players or whatever.

 

[Givenchy]

People suggesting Klopp, Pep, Tuchel it'll be Potter or best case scenario Howe and not much will change. The FA always go with the safe pick.

If/when United sack ten Hag, hopefully they hire SouthGOAT @delancey @Maradona37

 

[Porque]

Xavi has said he is interested in the job but has requested the signing of Zubimendi.

 

[delancey]

@Givenchy I am still baffled by the decision to keep ETH for another season, so Man U hiring SouthGoat next wouldn’t surprise me.

Would be great entertainment for another 1-2 seasons tho. Gosh I hope it happens 😂

 

[Maradona37]

People suggesting Klopp, Pep, Tuchel it'll be Potter or best case scenario Howe and not much will change. The FA always go with the safe pick.

If/when United sack ten Hag, hopefully they hire SouthGOAT @delancey @Maradona37

Yeah I was thinking that, hopefully United go for Southgate when Ten Hag has ran his race. I think Southgate would struggle a lot.

 

[khaled_a_d]

The future is bright for England

Is it?
Southgate has been by far the best manager they had in two decades at least, probably more.
If you ignore the boredom, he actually elevated that team and was the first manager to understand they aren't some football giants they claim they are.
It isn't like they are getting Klopp as replacement, names like Potter are more likely and that could turn ugly very quickly.

 

[khaled_a_d]

People suggesting Klopp, Pep, Tuchel it'll be Potter or best case scenario Howe and not much will change. The FA always go with the safe pick.

If/when United sack ten Hag, hopefully they hire SouthGOAT @delancey @Maradona37

Klopp or Tuchel are the safest bets, but are they going to even consider it?

 

[Jenks]

Hopefully they hire a good coach, because then the players will have nowhere to hide.

But we all know what will happen if they get Klopp or Guardiola. They will all of a sudden become the worst manager in the world. Anything, absolutely anything, so they don't have to admit the pure hard unadulterated truth, THAT THE PLAYERS ARE OVERATED, BANG AVERAGE COMPARED TO THEIR TECHNICALLY SUPERIOR FOREIGN COUNTERPARTS.

Don't believe me? Ask Capello, the best manager in the world at the time, who they turned in to a figure of public humiliation.

Is the power of the English hype machine so great that it controls Barcaforum too? Because when the vote was put up, more people here predicted England to win the tournament than any other team.

We have been guilty in the past of massively overrating our players for sure, but Foden was player of the season in England, Bellingham was the player of the season in Spain, Palmer and Watkins were putting up great numbers, multiple treble winners in the team and Harry Kane was top scorer in Germany... why wouldn't we think we had good players?