Absolutely
Heck if it wasn't for stupid partying - Ronnie would have probably achieved even more than Leo except for the stats!
Neymar Jr.
- Thread starter El Flaco
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Heck if it wasn't for stupid partying - Ronnie would have probably achieved even more than Leo except for the stats!
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
How tf did this cat get hair like that?
This was literally his hair last weekend
hair extensions
Joan
Well-known member
Glued the spaghetti ball onto the top of his head
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Messigician
Senior Member
How tf did this cat get hair like that?
This was literally his hair last weekend
You know it's hair extensions right...
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Van Basten:
1988: Napoli played for Italy
1989: Milan played CL
-- Milan won CL
-- Van Basten top scorer with 10 goals in 9 matches
1990: Milan played CL
-- Milan won CL
-- Van Basten scored 4 goals in 9 matches
1991: Milan played CL
-- Van Basten played the first 2 matches
-- Van Basten got injured
-- Milan got KO'd in the next round without him, by Olympique Marseille
1992: Sampdoria played for Italy, Milan didn't participate
1993: Milan played CL
-- Van Basten was fit
-- Milan reached a final and lost 0:1 to Marseille
-- Van Basten scored 8 goals in 7 matches
1994:
-- Milan won a CL, Van basten was injured and finished his career
So, basically, Van Basten played 3 CL seasons on the highest level, winning it 2 times and losing 1 final.
So, 3 seasons = 3 finals.
Playing 25 matches in those 3 seasons and scoring 22 goals.
For a comparison, Ruud Gullit in the same period played 17 matches, scored 5 CL goals during that winning era.
Outside of Milan:
1984: Ajax, KO'd in the 1st round
1985: Ajax hasn't played
1986: Ajax KO'd in the 1st round
1987: Ajax hasn't played
So, Van Basten played 3 years for Milan and 2 for Ajax.
And one more for Milan where he got injured and that was the only time in Van Basten's 4 CL years at Milan when Milan didn't reach the final.
Gerd Muller, CL participations:
1970 Bayern, Kod in the 1st round
1973 Bayern WON, 6 matches 11 goals. CL's top scorer
1975 Bayern WON, 7 matches 5 goals. CL's top scorer
1976 Bayern WON again. 6 matches 5 goals.
1977 lost in quarters to Dinamo Kiev, Muller hasn't played, he was injured.
So, Muller played 5 CL seasons in total, yet in the last one he was injured.
Out of his 4 CLs when he was fit, he won 3 out of 4 CLs, playing 35 matches and scoring 34 goals.
1974 Bayern won, 10 matches 8 goals. CL's top scorer.
I'll quote you one more time for fun:
So, in reality, Van Basten played 5 CLs in his life, won 2 and lost 1 final.
Muller played 4 seasons when he was fit, won 3 out of 4.
I am even afraid to write a fact that CR7 played 18 CL seasons (Van Basten 2 wins out of 5, Muller 3 out of 4).
Or that Messi played 17 seasons (people will now lose their minds, lol).
But let's go back to Neymar:
8 CL seasons for now, 1 win.
So, Van Basten:
-- played 5 CL seasons, won 2
-- played only 3 NT tournaments in his life (88, 90, 92), won the only ever title for Dutch in their history in 1988 with one of the best goals of all time.
-- named player of the tournament both in 1988 and 1992
-- scored 51 out of 54 penalties in his career
-- the only no9 in a history who won 3 Ballon D'ors
-- finished career aged 28
Anyway, an interesting video about him since 90% of people don't know too much about the older footballers:
If it weren't for injuries, he could have easily been on CR7's level of titles, or probably even higher.
BADGERBHOY
Senior Member
What you dont mention is that the CL had less good teams since there was only 1 for each country.
The UEFA Cup had 2, 3 and sometimes 4 teams from each country so was arguably harder to win than the CL, plus there was an extra round to get through.
The CL now has all the best teams in it now, so obviously it is much harder to win so a comparison is pretty daft.
As for the ballon d'or, only European players were eligible for that so players like Zico, Romario and Maradona couldnt win it, so again easier to win.
Van Basten was great though, but nowhere near Messi's level.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
CL had 2 teams from a winners from the previous season and a champion from other countries.
In today's world, it would be:
1. let's say Barca wins it
2. Real Madrid gets the 2nd Spanish spot
3. Man City
4. Bayern
5. Juve
6. Psg
7. Porto
8. Ajax
Whom are you losing in today's world?
1. Atletico Madrid
2. nobody from France, Italy or Germany because everyone outside of Bayern, Juve and Psg are horrible (Roma, Inter, Milan, Borussia, any French team)
3. you lose Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham
Also, back then there was no group stage, but KO rounds from the round of 32.
And KO rounds create more upsets than group stage since Barca/Real and big teams were KOd in the group stage for the last time somewhere in 2001'.
Also, before Bosman rule, you could had only 3 Non EU players in your team.
EU was only a Western Europe with 12-14 countries (iirc) back then.
South America, Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia, Australia, Usa were all foreigners.
Also, a lot of Eastern European countries didn't allow their players to leave their country, so champions of former Soviet Union (currently Russia, Ukraine and 10s of other countries), Romania, former Yugoslavia (currently Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, Bosnia etc), former Czechoslovakia (currently Czech Republic and Slovakia), Poland, Bulgaria etc were basically NT teams.
So, we didn't have Chelsea and Liverpool, but Milan and Barca had to play with only 3 foreigners against NT teams of crazy Eastern Europeans. That's basically like playing an NT team of Croatia, Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Czech today in 2 KO matches where everything is possible, without VAR and in the days when refs allowed butchering tackles on the opponents.
Think about this to see whether a CL (Champions cup was easy back then):
Real and Barca from 1966 to 1992 in 25 years won 0 CL trophies.
And played only 1 final each (and lost both: 1981 Real, 1986 Barca).
Or until 1998 when Real started to dominate the world again, Real and Barca played 15 and 6 CLs since 1966.
Real won 0 titles in 15 attempts.
Barca won 1 in 6 (1992 title).
So, to some extent, we might say that Real started to dominate after the Bosman rule and when Eastern European countries started to sell their players to Italy, Spain and England.
When rich got richer, Real and big clubs started to buy tens of South American with false passports and players like Modric, Rakitic, Kovacic, Mandzukic, Oblak and co who would have played only for domestic Eastern European teams in the past.
About Ballon D Or, Van Basten won it in 1988, 1989 and 1992:
1988:
Van basten won Seria A with Milan infront of Maradona who finished 2nd.
And Netherlands won Euro 88 with him scoring in a final and being MVP of the tournament.
Romario just came to Europe, to Psv.
= so, a deserved win for Van Basten even in today's terms
1989:
Inter won Serie A infront of Napoli and Milan.
Milan won a CL with a 4:0 win over Steaua.
Brasil won Copa America with 6 goals from Bebeto and 3 from Romario.
So:
Van Basten won a CL with 10 goals in 9 matches. Plus 33 goals in 47 matches for Milan.
Maradona won nothing.
Romario won Copa America, but Bebeto was the best scorer.
= when you sum it all, CL wins again since Bebeto was Brasil's best player but he played at Vasco in Brasil, far from the eyes of journos.
= so, a win for Van Basten again in today's terms, right?
1992:
Milan won Seria A. Van Basten scored 25 goals in 31 Seria A matches, he was again an MVP on Euro 1992
Maradona was serving a 15 Month ban from football due to failing a cocaine test.
Romario was injured and scored only 9 goals for Psv.
= so, it was Van Basten vs Barca's Stoichkov that season. But since Bulgaria hasn't even qualified for Euros, you know that journos vote for players based on World cup/Euros and CL wins combined.
So, about his 3 Ballon D Ors, Romario and Maradona didn't interfer too much back then.
The problem was especially zero CL titles for Maradona and Romario in their career.
Even today, who was the last BDOr winner without CL titles previously in their careers?
Cannavaro in 2006, Ronaldinho in 2005 and Nedved in 2003.
Jadentheman
Active member
Ronaldinho failed to push his team over the edge at the 2006 WC when he was the main star of that Brazil team. He also failed to push his team to a gold medal in the 2008 Olympics instead shown up by a young Messi's Argentina. In terms of club career, he failed to win a CWC and La Liga in 06/07 despite his goalscoring stats. Once he moved to Milan, he wasn't even rated by the managers that were there expect Leonardo. Despite having a campaign similar to his Barca days in 09/10, Ronaldinho FAILED to win Serie A or get past a Man United in CL. Neymar definitely has him over in terms of statistics and silverware for both Barcelona and Brazil. No contest.
But if we are referring to the overall package dribbling, passing, shot accuracy, R10 wins.
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
How?
Barca:
Ronaldinho 2 La ligas in 5 years with a weaker squad.
Neymar 2 La Ligas in 4 years with prime Messi, 3 years in MSN.
CL:
Ronaldinho 2006
MSN 2015
World cup:
Ronaldinho 2002
Copa America:
Ronaldinho 1999 as a sub
The only thing which Neymar has is Olympics.
But I am really not sure who rates that competition.
Jadentheman
Active member
Ronaldinho's Barca consisted of a supporting cast of Etoo, Deco, Larsson, Xavi, Iniesta, and Messi. In that order. Iniesta and Messi were younger and less experienced. Deco was already a CL winner by the time he came and Eto'o already played for top teams before he came to Barca. Xavi was an important player in the midfield although underrrated at that time due to stacked cast of players that stole the spotlight from him. The entire setup of Barca's possession game complimented his skills and made him look better. Same could be said for Neymar tbh.
Copa America and Brazil 2002, R10 was not a starter nor the main man. That Brazil was stacked with the best world players in their prime. I guess you could give props to R10 showing up in the England WC game but Brazil would have won anyway and that was more giving himself attention for his future career.
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